'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

WW - but in the UK Parliament is sovereign it doesn't matter what was in a manifesto, it has to be debated in and agreed by the UK Parliament.

This is the best chance they/you have of stopping it. Your aim is not democratic debate. It is anti democratic, obviously. It's like hiding under a curtain that's too short. We can all see your feet.

Actually it didn't have to be debated on until today's tiki'm g.

Lastglirl can I just say _ great post. Got a bit caught up there and didn't see it at first.

It is entirely democratic.

Interestingly one of the big campaigners against use of the royal prerogative before all this was Brexit's very own David Davis.

Which part of 'this is about more than immigration' are you guys not getting?

David Davis is in favour not only of A vote but a full act. of parliament, passed by the Lord's and the commons.

He's too trusting. The SNP will see it never gets passed.

Your aim is not democratic WW my aim is irrelevant. This is UK law. Parliament is sovereign, major constitutional issues must be debated in and voted on by Parliament. That is the foundation of the UK constitution - parliamentary sovereignty.

I get it's your thing, to shout racist when the well runs dry, but haven't we moved on? No one here is racist. Don't let it upset you too much.

Not really, since its the aim of the lead claimant and its exactly how it will be exploited. It's THE relevant thing.

It is UK law NOW. It wasn't this morning.

The SNP will see it never gets passed. - indeed in a democracy elected MPs are allowed to vote in Parliament. Some MPs may vote in a way you do not like. In the UK Parliament is sovereign, so elected MPs get to vote and make decisions. MPs voting in Parliament = democracy in action.

I didn't mention racism then ww

You said lastgirls post was great and it was all about immigration.

You and surfer have made your views clear in this area too.

The fact is, it's not just about that.

I guess that's what your so afraid of though.

It has been UK law for a long time. Parliamentary sovereignty is long established. The High Court was confirming that the executive branch was overstepping it's jurisdiction and the decision needs to be made by Parliament.

Bit of - truly stretching the knicker elastic to suggest a commons vote is more democratic than a referendum. And the irony of you lot advising people 'some may vote in a way you don't like'.... ? Did you see that? The irony? Did you post that with a straight face?

You implied we think it's all about immigration. But your last post indicates that it's not racist to be worried about immigration, so thanks for clearing that up.

No bit. Three other judges could have ruled differently.

That rather depends how you demonstrate your concerns about immigration ww

The fact is none of you can tell us why you're so unhappy about the terms of Brexit being debated.

Does nothing to dispel the myth that's it's because youre afraid of the questions that will have to be answered does it?

Three other judges could have ruled differently

That's exactly why all 11 Supreme Court judges will rule on the appeal- to prevent barrel scraping comments like this.

WW - I will go slowly. The rules of UK parliamentary democracy - our unwritten constitution - make it clear the UK Parliament is sovereign. We can debate different types of democracy on another thread but here we are talking about the long established rules of the UK.

You may think a vote in the House of Commons is not democratic, however, in terms of UK democracy the HoC is the most important chamber. Parliament is sovereign, the referendum was advisory. You might not like this but it is UK law.

Well remainers it looks like you won in the end. You made enough trouble to get Brexit delayed & probably stopped all together.
The wishes of 17 million people mean nothing to you.
I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

Quit with the hysterics surfer

You were quite happy to ignore the wishes of 16m people.

This isn't game over, it just makes the rules of the game a bit clearer.

I'll ask again, what are you so afraid of?

By 'delayed' you mean debated in the Parliament of the UK. By 'trouble' you mean reviewed by the highest courts in the UK.

So it is going to be 'undemocratically' debated by the sovereign Parliament of the UK in accordance with the long established precedents of the constitution of the UK.

Bastards.

Surfer, Brexit hasn't been stopped, it's just going to happen in accordance with our parliamentary democracy.

And don't you think that the rights of the whole population matter, including the 16 million that voted remain and the many more that didn't or couldn't vote at all? They didn't cease to exist on 24th June.

I am actually confused. Brexiters wanted to regain 'control' for the UK. However, there seems to be little understanding of, or support for, the UK constitution. In the UK referenda are advisory. A vote in the HoC does have more weight than a referendum, those are the rules of UK parliamentary democracy.

The SNP will see it never gets passed.

Here are some numbers for you.
There are 650 MPs. However Sinn Fein do not recognise Westminster so do not vote. This means to get a majority you effectively need 322 votes (326 - 4 Sinn Fein)

The SNP have 56 MPs.

Tell me HOW the SNP can block a majority in the HoC? I'd like to know, how you have come to this logic about them 'seeing it never gets passed'.

If Scotland manages to block Brexit, then it will be because the referendum was flawed in how it dealt with the constitution of this country. Not because the SNP have done something wrong. They can not just block it without having a good reason or out of spite.

It will be a failing of the government - the previous one and the current one.