'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

The referendum was different to the x factor. Are you thinking it was the same? Maybe that's why you can't compute any of this.

You're so struggling with the fact still that people disagree with you

So are you

we have to trigger article 50, negotiate, and leave

And who is going to scrutinise the negotiation, legalities and process to ensure it is done in a proper and correct way if not our Sovereign Parliament?

In the UK Parliament gets to decide, that is how our democracy works.

Could any leavers actually deal with the issue here which is that, if you're so convinced this is the right decision for us, why is it a problem to have the details debated in parliament?

Well no I'm not struggling. Why do you think I'm struggling?

The referendum was different to the x factor . Yes that's right. The X factor is a public vote. The referendum was advisory, that is a matter of constitutional law. Parliament is sovereign.

We don't want to reveal our negotiating hand to a cabal of vindictive competitors riddled with hopeful schadenfreude?

Surfer, seriously, this is good news, for you and everyone else. Nobody is blocking Brexit. This is about governments not being able to remove your rights without parliamentary scrutiny. And it's about sovereignty which is presumably exactly what you voted for.

Bit: it was a different kind of public vote (my italics)

Why do you think I'm struggling?

Mainly because, if this was actually the fantastic idea you think it is, you'd be happy for it to be debated.

The trouble is its a shit idea that doesn't stand up to scrutiny so now you're struggling.

Kaija quite right, no one is blocking brexit. They're trying, but they won't.

Bear, I voted remain but I would think the answer is pretty obvious...MPs don't have the lived experiences of the ordinary working class men and women who are the ones suffering due to unregulated immigration, and who desperately hoped Brexit might put be some kind of solution. People simply don't trust MPs. However, no way will the referendum be overturned.

I have to say though if we had the referendum again, I would vote leave. I regretted voting remain as soon as I put the slip in the box. I think this is all just delaying the inevitable and people are silly if they think otherwise.

I have seen Dominic Cummings - head of the Vote Leave campaign AND Louise Mensch - also a very vocal Leave support post very sensible and reasonable responses about why Leavers should welcome the article 50 ruling and how it is GOOD for sovereignty of the UK.

Its not about nasty remainers unmining the result.

If these two have no problem with the ruling for that reason, can you explain why its so bad?

Despite membership of the EU the UK courts have decided that important decisions about the UK should be made by the UK Parliament. This is good for UK democracy surely?

Kaija - lovely post, but I don't believe it. It's all about delaying, & hopefully stopping, Brexit.

See my post just a little bit above yours.
A simple vote on triggering would do the job.

it was a different kind of public vote (my italics) Yes that's right it was an advisory referendum.

I've said I don't mind a vote that much. It's just unnecessary. I know what those two said.

Element - I totally get that and yes this should be discussed within parliament, what jars with me is that this case was bought about under the guise of it being about democracy/transparency when the ultimate goal, I believe, was to hopefully get MPs to vote it out entirely and that's a different thing altogether.

Surfer, there are plenty of people who would like to stop Brexit happening, but this ruling is not that. This is about how Brexit happens, not whether it happens.

Brexiters want control of the UK and sovereignty. Well democracy needs debate - that's kind of the whole point - and that means delay. Dictatorships can make very quick decisions.

Time, nobody seriously expects MPs to vote against article 50 at this point. It really is about parliamentary sovereignty.

..offered by a government elected with a referendum manifesto and under an understanding to act on the advice. So yes, slightly different to a pay tv phone in vote.

Kaija - if that is the reason and the sole reason then no problem, however, I remain a tad dubious.