'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

Gloria's not going to be up for a karaoke 'I will survive' by the sounds of things...

So I'll start ' well now go, walk out the door, don't turn around now, you're not welcome anymore'....

If we're going for Gloria's Best Of for karaoke, I'd go for "Never Can Say Goodbye", "We Belong Together" or "Let Me Know (I Have A Right)".

Or who's up for "You Can [Br]Exit", "Set Me Free" or "We Can Start All Over Again"?

Well, looking at the polls this morning I think I'd settle for 'It's the end of the world as we know it....'

Scary times.

Maybe best to keep in with our neighbours across the pond then....a line dance class would be more the thing then, Storm? Although a yew haw might be a bit retrograde inappropriate.

the Belgian Muslims should be doing more to oust those with jihadists links if they want to be believed that it was nothing to do with them.

Oh really? At this point you lose the right to be taken seriously.

Calling a place with proven jihadists residents, links and murderers (Bataclan, Zaventem and the Brussels metro, and the gun attack that killed Jews) jihadi central is no more Islamophobic than calling London 'Londonistan' for the amount of radical Islamists that manage to live there.

Because Londonistan isn't Islamophobic in itself.

Don't ever bother trying to speak to me again.

Bearbehind attitude to WW has just exemplified why so many of us are pig sick of trying to converse in the treads on here. She belittles WW and still won't let it lay even though the poster has told her the truth. She then belittles anyone else who comes to WW's defence! She has such a superior attitude - of course she knows the truth and descends to calling WW a liar. What the hell does it really matter? We were all in the pub having a quiet drink before this!

corcory this is a very interesting illustration of the difference between the thought process as a Remainer and that of a Leaver.

You choose to believe that ww was telling the truth about the doorbell, I choose to believe she was lying.

Neither of us can ever actually know the truth for sure but you took it at completely face value and didn't think to question it whereas I looked at the bigger picture ie that it's not the first time ww has made up excuses to avoid responding to points that she can't answer and more importantly there was no reason why, even if the door bell rang at the point ww claimed it did, she couldn't have responded in one of the numerous posts she made after.

It's a trivial example I realise but is really quite telling.

As for 'what the hell does it really matter'- given the direction of this thread, although I'd like to hope you were just referring to the doorbell, I suspect you and your fellow drinkers might actually have been referring to Brexit itself.

The doorbell rang. If WW was trying to get out of answering then why not just not post until she had thought of/prepared an answer or a better excuse!?

I drop in and out of threads constantly, I think we can all accept that we are people with actual lives happening right now.

And none of us are bound to accept interrogation, particularly when any alternative viewpoint - viewpoint is all we can have at this stage, no matter how much certain posters ream off their facts and evidence - is dismissed, as it doesn't appear in their Advanced Brexit Groupthink Manual for the Doomladen.

IamWendy I completely agree with you. The whole point is that these threads descend into nit picking about things that have nothing to do with the discussion. No one is going to be keen to continue a discussion with posters who love to call them out on the least little thing and call them liars about their reasons for leaving the thread for a bit. I can remember very well being royally called out for saying I had better things to do than answer the constant barrage of interrogation. I was actually finding it quite stressful.
I really like the 'Advanced Brexit Groupthink Manual for the Doomladen' BoredofBrexit!

It seems that remainers think that because we didn't like the way the eu path was going, and are leaving, it is our job to provide guarantees that all will be well.
The people who had very real concerns about immigration were never given any kind of garantee that numbers would be controlled, and any attempts to bring numbers down were woefully inadequate. Any anger on our part was labked racism and ignored. So why is it acceptable for some posters to demand things from us that they never gave us?

Some people make me think of Columbo.

As a remoaner, I don't think it's anyone's place to provide guarantees nor am I looking for anyone to provide any. I'm just here to drink the bar dry to try and understand the reasons why people voted to leave and what they want a U.K. without Europe to look like.

I'm absolutely fine that people have voted to leave I'm not as it is a democracy but I feel that the leave campaign was based around promises that they had no intention of delivering and it makes me question if this changes anything for the leavers?

Hope I've explained that ok?

Amazing how one can extrapolate an elaborate ruse to deflect & dodge, from "the doorbell rang".
And then go on to use it as an 'example' of the difference between Leavers & Remainers...

On the subject of 'the difference between leavers & remainers', it would be interesting to see what similarities/differences there are between the (very small) small cross section on here.

As in personality types & age etc
rather than the usual education level/area/occupation etc.

How are you categorising personality types, Manga?

Don't know!

Blunt tool would be Myers Briggs I suppose, and generally how you perceive yourself to be.

For me:
ENFP

Copied from the wiki ENFP description:

Extrovert
Intuitive
Feeling
Perception

ENFPs are outgoing, creative, with the key skill of perceiving complicated patterns and information and assimilating it quickly. They are flexible, highly adaptable workers. They are driven by a keen devotion to their ideals and a strong drive to help others. Less developed are their patience for routine tasks, and projection of a serious, committed image. The least extroverted of the extrovert types, ENFPs need significant time alone to center themselves and make sure they are moving in a direction which is in sync with their values. Keirsey referred to ENFPs as Champions, one of the four types belonging to the temperament he called the Idealists.[2] ENFPs account for about 7% of the population, including Bill Clinton and Dr. Seuss.

I would say I'm quite outward thinking, am always open to change & different ways of doing things - I get bored easily by detail and repetitiveness.
I am naturally inclined to look for the positives in something, even if it appears to be an insurmountable pile of shit!

I would probably say I'm a jack of all trades, master of nothing - I've a broad brush range of skills & approaches rather than niche or specialised.

Not exceptional at anything in particular but good at most things - asset would be that I'm adaptable & empathetic, failing would be that I get very irritated easily by minutiae and by people who are stuck in their ways.

I'm 41.

Long time since I did Myers Briggs - but I vaguely remember that I was ISTJ and DH was ENTJ. Both voted Remain.

ISTJ: Quiet, serious, earn success by thoroughness and dependability. Practical, matter-of-fact, realistic, and responsible. Decide logically what should be done and work toward it steadily, regardless of distractions. Take pleasure in making everything orderly and organized - their work, their home, their life. Value traditions and loyalty.

ENTJ: Frank, decisive, assume leadership readily. Quickly see illogical and inefficient procedures and policies, develop and implement comprehensive systems to solve organizational problems. Enjoy long-term planning and goal setting. Usually well informed, well read, enjoy expanding their knowledge and passing it on to others. Forceful in presenting their ideas.

Myers Briggs has been completely discredited.

A quick test reveals that I am INFP. I'm 38.

According to Wikipedia we're a rare breed - accounting for 4% of the population. And looking at the list of notables we're a bunch of doom and gloomers

Myers Briggs has been completely discredited.

I'm personally not a fan of personality tests full stop. Studied them as part of my MSc and I don't think they stand up but that's just my opinion.

Now we're discussing our personality tests! This is the pub remember. The lunch time crowd seem a bit too intense for me.

BertrandRussell Didn't know that (although a quick Google quickly demonstrates it) - but it was done about 20 years ago by someone trained to do the assessments. I do know I'm a completer-finisher and logical, so I always thought it wasn't a bad summary of how I work. And I do like filing stuff.

So why is it acceptable for some posters to demand things from us that they never gave us?

Because it was a failing of the remain campaign to not do this as you yourself point out.

Not being able to provide assurances the other way, is merely another failing. Not something that you can abdicate from doing, just because the other party failed to do this.

If we want the future to be good for everyone then we need to start answering these questions one way or another and offering reassurance. This is the point. Whoever is in power should be providing this. Otherwise they should not be in charge of the situation as they are not in control of the situation properly and others will seek to take back that control. (Yep the phrase is relevant that's why it was so powerful).

One of the points that is so relevant here is that fear is being exploited all round. Both Leave and Remain campaigns were framed on it. This needs to be smashed through in order to take power from 'elites' and place it in the hands of the electorate.

By pushing for these answers you hold people to account on their responsibilities. It is a counter weight to the abuse of power.

It works in all directions whether you support Leave or Remain. It is not about whether Leave were right and Remain were wrong. Its simply about accountability.

Myer Briggs. I'm not convinced by it, as I have done before and come out with different types. I seem to come out close to 50% on several markers so it depends on the actual test I've taken. I have been an ESTP, ENFP and INFJ before!!! Either that or I have a warped personality (which isn't beyond the realms of possibility in truth!).