'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

Yay choc
I agree it's most inspiring!

Autumn on the other hand the waffles are quite nice

But you do have to put mayo on your chips

I'm a walking remoaner cliche - what's wrong with mayo on your frittes?

I CANT wait to visit the heartland of the EU where the Jihadi heart beats, where its own country speaks how many different languages, where there is actually no cohesion between regions, where there is division and chaos....LETS GO!!!
I am appalled by this. Keep popping in hoping to hear some reason, but no.
Autumn do you realise just how retrograde you appear? What's wrong with a country speaking several languages? Jihadi heart? Is this the level here?

I thought what Red said was all dressed up with pretending to want to be helped to understand. Which makes it goady.

Winchester you said the following:

Does the WTO have a reason for treating the UK unfairly, or making the process difficult and lengthy? apart from a punitive reason?

Are you suggesting the UK will cease to be able to trade after Brexit?

So what's your problem Manon? What do you think is going to happen?

Well you must think something awful is going to happen. What is it?

What is so bad about WTO tariffs again?

I actually found that pretty, well goady in its own right and responded in a tone I thought matched it, as I found it frustrating and trying to close down debate without really saying why the WTO option is so great. But hey ho.

My main point is that yes, I whole heartedly do think there is a massive problem with the possibly that trade could be adversely affected.

And thank you Garden, that actually the type of thing I want to hear and have a good look into.

At first glance it does suggest from that, that the agriculture industry could be the biggest looser in terms of trade to the EU. Which is concerning as it will also have more competition from outside the EU within the UK market I would suspect which is an important consideration, as we are largely protected from this by the EU and we wouldn't be if we went WTO. The agriculture industry is already the most threatened sector (even more so than manufacturing even though that's what everyone is talking about because of the number of people it employees) and by its very nature, perhaps should be the one we should give a lot more consideration to as we are already over dependent on food imports and damaging food exports could further weaken our food production network (and in turn push up prices or restrict the amount of food we are able to produce as a nation).

My other problem with it, is it also does not seem to address the car industry issue with regard to supply chains. The figures there are based on the current situation where parts are made and manufactured in different parts of the EU and then partly constructed in one location before being moved to the next part of the chain for the next part of assembly. The issue here is, that it looks like the EU are paying more to the Uk but this could potentially be simply avoided by switching the supply chain to being all EU based. You would only want to pay the tariff on the completed goods rather than the compound effect of cross channel manufacturing chains. Its an oversimplified model of the car industry which doesn't really reflect the way in which things are constructed and how manufacturers could and would streamline operations.

Now I could be wrong on both those two accounts, but that's what I see in that particular data (or more to the point - what I don't see in that data - which is equally important) and I think is worthy of further discussion to establish whether that's true or not. I have no problem with being wrong. I'd just like to be reassured that my fears have been taken into consideration.

I'm now hiding this thread as I find it insensitive, ignorant, depressing.

Why don't you google The Economist belgium jihadi heart of europe jaws. You can be appalled all over again.

Storm: it's ketchup on chips unless it's fish and chips then it's brown sauce
I learnt this at my mother's knee am possibly set in my ways

Jaws but you've got Andrew marr for a barman. What's not to like.

I've seen a lot of daft things posted on this thread but brown sauce on fish and chips

Well you have cheered me up actually as I like mayo on chips, BUT mixed with dijon mustard, but is that going too - will I have to whittle my own

Autumn do you realise just how retrograde you appear? What's wrong with a country speaking several languages? Jihadi heart? Is this the level here?

I am too drunk on a sense of freedom to care how I appear. My dress is hitched up, i have struck a few darts into beady eyes, rammed a few of junckers balls into the pockets, the deep pockets of the private wealthy individuals who and I am dancing like no one cares.

The level is what YOU make it.

Yeah it's bad isn't it

Well yes, it is bad.

They told us Trump had no chance of being in the white house and ...

I meant Brown sauce on fish and chips is bad
You are operating on an altogether higher plane

goodnight you old soaks

I am appalled by this. Keep popping in hoping to hear some reason, but no. Autumn do you realise just how retrograde you appear? What's wrong with a country speaking several languages? Jihadi heart? Is this the level here?

It's extraordinary. Neatly combines xenophobia with Islamophobia and downright mind-boggling ignorance.

InformalRoman The UK is a member both individually and collectively within the EU. of the WTO. If we are a member both individually and collectively (a bit like joint and several liability perhaps?), then as an individual member, surely we don't have to renegotiate anything as our membership stands on its own?

Surfer what do you want to do with us all when we visit...brussels? We could go to the Museum of Torture off the Grand Place, have a meal at the Hard Rock Cafe, go for a coffee at Starbucks, people watch, window shop at the Galeries de St Hubert and drool at the Delvaux handbags, then have an aneurysm at the price...shop for antiques at the Sablon, do the Art Museums and the Modern Instrument Museum (great restaurant at the top), go to the EU Quarter if you liked, go and see the new NATO HQ as it nears the end of its build, ride a tram...the list goes on and on. Atomium is worth seeing and there's a nice park there.

After all that, you guys can go to a hotel, and I'll catch the tram home. Guess where I live?

scary We would remain a member but we would need to renegotiate all the schedules as our membership terms are bundled in with the EU's terms. Whilst all 28 EU member states are individual members, the EU itself is also a member. The EU member states therefore have combined “rights” (e.g. to be able to export to other countries, and not to be discriminated against), balanced against shared “obligations” (e.g. to open up to imports from them, and not to discriminate against them).

Here's an example of how complicated it might be:

In the WTO, the EU has agreed to keep its import duties within certain limits. For example, for some types of shoes this is a maximum of 17 percent. That limit applies to all EU members when they import from outside the EU. The EU’s quotas — allowing quantities of certain products to be imported at special lower-duty rates — are for the whole single market, not any individual country such as the UK. Limits on agricultural subsidies are also for the entire EU.

To be an independent WTO member, the UK would be creating its own rights and obligations out of the EU’s. That’s not as simple as it sounds. One reason is because other countries with different interests would want to ensure the balance is also right for them.

Take just one hard-fought issue: low-duty import quotas for high-quality beef, just two of almost 100 EU quotas. The EU opened these beef quotas after lengthy negotiations with Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, New Zealand, Paraguay, Uruguay, and the US.

Extracting UK beef quotas out of the EU’s would require negotiations with all of them, plus possibly other suppliers such as Botswana, India, and Namibia, and definitely the EU itself — Ireland, Germany and France have particularly strong beef lobbies.

While the exporting countries are pressing for the UK’s quota gates to be opened wider, and jostling with each other for paths through the opening, UK farmers would be pushing in the opposite direction. Remember, to reach agreement, the WTO’s consensus rule would apply.

www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about-uk-regaining-wto-status-post-brexit makes interesting reading on just how complicated things may be if Brexit goes down the WTO route. Note the section about the level of uncertainty over what the EU quotas actually comprise.

Can someone pin this up on the cork board by the bar, please?

I CANT wait to visit the heartland of the EU where the Jihadi heart beats, where its own country speaks how many different languages, where there is actually no cohesion between regions, where there is division and chaos....LETS GO!!!

What part of that is incorrect? There is no cohesion between regions here, try speaking French in Bruges, you will be blanked. Try Flemish or English and you be responded to. There are 6 governments in this small country...Flanders and Wallonia are almost constantly sniping at each other, and I'm sorry, Molenbeek, Schaerbeek and Anderlecht are jihadi central, as we saw from Bataclan and the March bombings at Zaventem and on the metro here. The authorities here don't have a scooby who is in those districts as people don't register as they are supposed to; the intelligence is woeful (and lots of what there is comes from outside Belgium); and there is lots of movement between Belgium and Syria. The latest is that the plan is now to contact disaffected youths and encourage them to commit terrorist acts at home in Belgium, rather than go abroad to join Daesh.

The language can be confusing - you have to work out which language is being used on a road sign for place names...Anvers = Antwerp Bergen=Mons. the signs change depending which side of the language line you are on. We are very close to it on the Flemish side, but it took some getting used to when we first moved here.

Informal Thanks for that - I'll have a look when I'm home again...vets, IKEA and a trip to the British shop to buy cheddar that isn't €25 per kilo beckons...and I need various other things aunavailable in Belgian supermarkets, like Lurpak. So much for the single market when I can buy Lurpak at Carrefour in Oman, but not in Belgium. Ho hum.

scary can you do a stealthy ninja style Lurpak raid across the border to the Netherlands?

It's less petrol to go to Stonemanor, (they sell Waitrose stuff...joy) grab Lurpak and other essentials like cheddar, clotted cream, poppadoms and custard! I do raid Sainsbury every time I go home to do the university run, and Pets at Home as well, as the preferred food of the Imperial Feline Overlords is half the price in the UK, so I stock up, and the customs bods at Dover always groan when they open my boot. They are welcome to rummage amongst the smoked haddock fillets, crumpets, teacakes and peanut butter stash.

Vets done (much cheaper than UK!), and then off to IKEA and Stonemanor. May manage a cream tea -- bliss!

The EU doesn't have its 'own country', Belgium is simply where some of its infrastructure is located. A country with more than one language is hardly unusual - Wales, Ireland, Switzerland, Canada etc. And if you don't graspe that labelling Belgium 'jihadi central' is Islamophobic and offensive to all Belgian Muslims who have nothing to do with terrorism, then I can't help you.

The contemptuous tone was particularly revolting, but in a thread that distinguishes itself by the ignorant mentality and obnoxiousness of its posters, is hardly surprising.

Retrograde was merely the polite way of putting it.