Pro-Leavers - please help

[CeciledeVolanges]

Good morning.
I am following a lot of conversations and events about the referendum and there are a lot of assertions about "what the referendum was about" and "why people voted" and "what people want."
I just wanted to ask, neutrally, if you believe that we should leave the EU what good things do you want to happen or believe will happen when we do?
I can't account for anyone else, but I have seen some really nasty referendum threads and I often get upset about it myself, so I want to say I will not attack or even argue with anyone, I'm just interested to hear the wishes and opinions of people who want positively to leave. It is such an emotive issue - not least to me - and maybe there are some views we haven't heard yet.
Thanks if you do answer! And thanks for reading.

Typical of politicians smallfox, nothing new there

Why should Wendy lay out her good reasons for you to pick over? You would probably need to be less of an aggressive remainers before she did that? Just a thought anyway.

I voted leave. I think a lot of people correlate the EU with Europe, and that confuses the issue.

I personally have no idea why anyone supports an institution created through transnational treaties that is so hopeless, it cannot even run a single currency for fifteen years without a wholesale default in a member country nor can even prevent a terrorist attack a few miles away from its own headquarters.

My position is that if the EU cannot even do these basic things, it cannot do anything.

Again, it makes me laugh when people talk about trade and the EU. The EU trade talks with India have been going on for 8 years. And do not get me started on the dehabilitating tariffs applied to African nations on processed raw materials, which are basically stopping them from developing significant parts of their economies.

How really has the EU benefitted anyone but the elites and the Germans? Youth unemployment is ridiculously high in Spain, Italy and Portugal. There's an entire lost generation in Greece. The wave of hard foreign currency into Poland has created inequalities. Nato prevented war in Europe, not the EU and the way the EU handled Ukraine was dangerous.

The EU is a disaster zone that will collapse. I felt it was better that Britain got out before we were dragged down with it.

And leave never said that the 350 million would all go on the NHS.

Then give them then wendy, t after all this is a forum for debate not ad hominem attacks.

Also Ivoted, there were SO many lies on the leave side that it was very difficult to count.

Even the biggest one they cited on the remain side of £4,300 a year is almost true already thanks to the fall in the value of our currency.

The rest of it? Well we'll actually have to see when we leave and what deal we get, but if we hard brexit the markets are already showing us what we can expect.

And I don't think there is one single leave voter who voted with ill intent.

I think that is debatable. The BBC interviewed one voter, who voted Leave so that they could kick all the Muslims out. Personally, I would regard that as an ill intent.

Wendy.

There was a big bus with it on the side and billboards.

"We send £350 million a week to Brussles, lets fund our NHS instead."

You can't possibly say that this wasn't the intention of it wasn't to make people think that money would go on the NHS now. Quibbling about semantics now is utterly disingenuous and shows the paucity of the campaign.

Weksallhours, The British managed to have terrorist attacks right by the centre of government on numerous occasions. That's a facile remark.

Also the greek situation sin't really down to the EU its far, far more complex than that, so conflating one thing with the other is not helpful.

Smallfox I would read that as "we want to spend it on our own country's need" needs such as the NHS. I would take that to mean every penny will automatically get spent in the NHS. And even if a politician pledged that I'd take it with a pinch of salt because we all know that's the game they play!

Sorry I can't quote stuff now as it was a while ago but I read a website of a Scottish nep and he had on his most recent visit to Brussels debated with fellow Uk meps a proposal to put forward a possible (small) change to a piece of law ( was it farming? Was it fishing? I can't remember) part of which affected Scotland.
And that was it
We are funding all these people generously to fly tobrussels for days , put them all up somewhere comfortable to discuss a proposal, no vote on legislation or decide on changes but to discuss a flaming proposal -- what joke of a behemoth sized gravy train is this - he could have done a conference call/ jt email to his cronies. And this is being done by all meps from dozens of countries. Id never heard of the guy from Adam but I wAs paying tax to fund this joke of a set up! Still seething. The Eu had turned into a pisstake at the expense of the common man - good riddance.

Ok Peregrina you can have one. 17,099,999 then, wished no ill intent.

Ah you might have read it like that, there are a lot of people I know who read it as that is what would happen to the money.

That's before we even get to the fact that the actual available cash after all EU funding commitments are made in this country, and the rebate taken off is about £110 million.

Utterly disingenuous sorry.

Both sides lied, that's the nature of politics

Sad but true

110 million is still quite a lot of money though

Only one side have retracted the main claim of their campaign though.

The £4,300 worse off figure is on the way to becoming true with the fall in the value of the £ too.

In fact what were the remain lies? You see most of the predictions were based on what would happen if we left the EU, and we haven't even begun to negotiate leaving, so its quite hard to prove.

Anna Cecilia Malmström said it all when she said:

I do not take my mandate from the European people.

Everyone was against TTIP she didnt give a damn.

They are unelected and we cannot vote them out and they don't care what we think.

We are a group of 28 counties some of which after 25 years of union we still habe nothing in common with. Very different economies, ways of.life.

As for the newer ones. They are backsliding. Look at Polands government. Banning abortion. Going back to the dark ages in terms of womens rights.

Free movement results on one way traffic. We have good employment opportunities and one of the best minimum wages in the world. Does anyone here want to go to eastern Europe for their rights amd benefits and employment opportunities?

No. Its all one way.

Holding the whole country to ransom with an emergency budget if they didn't vote to stay, I would say, was not George Osbourne's finest hour. I knew a fair few people who were on the fence until he opened his mouth with that little cracker with the result being the polar opposite.

IVotedOut - yes, lies, lies and more lies. The whole political system at the moment is a complete bloody shambles.

But it isn't £350 million is it? So the figure was misleading along with what would happen to the money, saying all politicians lie is absolving those who ran the campaign from utterly misguiding those voting for them.

Also the £110 million is wiped entirely from the tax take following a 0.5% fall in economic growth. Which is fairly likely if we hard brexit.

I voted to leave because I don't want to be part of totalitarian superstate which will ultimately be run by France and Germany.

Our system of politics is far from perfect but it's better than that undemocratic mess in Brussels.

A friend of mine works in Poland but hey ho.

There is generally exaggeration in political campaigns and promises made that the party the can't keep.

But the lies were very much on one side in this vote - famously described by a distinguished law professor as 'dishonesty on an industrial scale'.

Even the famous 'punishment budget' threat I think Osborne would have carried through if he hadn't been fired. Whether he would actually have raised taxes is a moot point, but he would certainly have cut public spending - as May announced she intended to do shortly after she became PM.

Liz there were a few people for TTIP Boris Johnson, Liam Fox and David Davis for starters.

Expect that along as soon as they can get a similar deal one, this time without the negotiating power of the EU. So TTIP on steroids.

Your all one way argument? Bitish firms are able to invest in Eastern Europe and do so, they then make profits in these areas that ar repatriated to this country and boost out economy and tax receipts. There are 4 freedoms remember. Lots of UK companies make a lot of money by being able to invest in markets in these countries that would be closed.

You might think we don't have anything in common with Europeans, but many would disagree with you.

Didn't Cameron say that leaving the EU could trigger World War 3?

You voted leave because you don't want to be part of a totalitarian superstate?

Now that is hilarious.

I voted to leave because I don't want to be part of totalitarian superstate which will ultimately be run by France and Germany

Our system of politics is far from perfect but it's better than that undemocratic mess in Brussels

This is the problem: Leave voters claim Remain campaign lied as much as Leave, and they weren't taken in by them anyway - then parrot Leave campaign lies such as this that they don't even realise are not true.

Do you know what totalitarianism is btw?