At last they get it!

[fryingtoday]

Channel 4 at last realise the huge Northern vote was not primarily about immigration but about the decades of politicians having ignored them ...

Let's see how long it takes everyone else to twig and really start to understand why.

yes, my bad, apologies, I should have navigated back to the picture to comment more accurately, thanks for point it out Enthusiasm

The consequence most people wanted was to get out

That may well be the case. But if "most people" didn't think beyond that, it does rather vindicate concerns about the failure to engage their brains fully.

We are out of the EU which is what people wanted

Actually, we aren't.

There was a great quote on a programme I watched, from a pub landlord who had voted Leave. He said "we're not turkeys voting for Christmas. We're voting to stop the production line"

The problem is that if turkeys vote to stop the production line, they will still get slaughtered because there is no motivation for farmers to carry on feeding them, and they will also ensure that no further turkeys are produced. Which makes that metaphor rather more profound and apt than that landlord perhaps realised.

Judy loving your extended analogy!

Someone i knew from school who voted Leave and kept sharing Britain First bile on fb has just been placed onto the Ingeus Work Programme.

So why didn't all the protest voters protest at the election? That was the point at which you could have all punished Cameron yet Tories got in with a bigger majority than in 2010.

Gloria ive been saying the same in RL

Gloria, Helena, their share of the popular vote was NOT impressive in 2015 (about a third of voters - a quarter of potential voters -voted Conservative). But due to first past the post and a splintering of the opposition vote they gained seats.

http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2015/05/lets-not-get-carried-away-the-conservatives-only-won-over-a-quarter-of-all-potential-voters.html

It wasn't impressive, no, but it was enough to get them elected.

If all the leave voters who bothered to turn out for the referendum had voted against the Tories, they may not have gained an extra 25 seats.

Gloria because a percentage of leave voters are also Conservative voters

My town (SE) is a Tory ssfe seat and so is the constituency I grew up in

Both voted leave

We haven't seen so much of them on TV that's all

They might not have been racist, but they are as thick as mince.

Upthread, Rocknrollsuicide said "I wonder how many times people read or hear - wages under cut, hmo's it will ever take for you to understand that a whole generation has been wiped out by EU competition?"

I think a lot of Remainers do get that. Plenty of them posting here. I grew up in one of the poorest areas of the UK and I'm well aware of how lucky I am.

But the horrible truth is that if and when we're properly out, then the EU competition is going to look very overpaid in comparison with the Chinese, Indian, Bangladeshi workers that our manual workers are going to be competing with. That's what a vibrant global economy looks like. It's emphatically not a pretty picture.

Excuse me, Northerner here and I voted Remain thanks OP.

This worries me too Empress.

Competing directly with billions of workers in China, India, Bangladesh will drive down wages & conditions far more than a million East Europeans living in the UK. Unfettered capitalism.
The real problem is the gross inequality and social immobility in the UK - worse than anywhere else in Western Europe.
The poorest are fighting each other for the scraps left by the rich.

I would totally understand a desperate vote for freedom & justice - if the left could take over a Labour government and it was a Tory Opposition in fratricidal collapse.
As it is, Brexit has instead delivered the country to either Thatcher II (May) or a fascist (Leadsome) for at least 4 years.

The Tory Party openly say they plan to boost privatisation and roll back the welfare state, workers' rights e.g. that expensive maternity leave and emergency parental leave, disabled access.
Leadsome is against equal marriage, unmarried people raising kids ... - basically against much of the British public.
They'll tweak the electoral system and political funding rules to make it even more difficult for Labour to dislodge them in 2020 or 2025.

supermum You, like many wealthy Tory Brexiters, are totally insulated from the effects of Brexit, because you live in the US and you have posted that your DH earns $ 1 MILLION per year.
You can afford to take the risk of losing even most of your UK assets.
You won't be struggling to pay the grocery bill.

Those of us who are better off / mobile professionals can escape any serious effects of Brexit (I'm a scientist, just emigrated to Germany after Brexit)
The hedge-funders and the vulture capitalists who sponsored Brexit will multiply their fortunes.
Those who are going to suffer will be those who can't escape and / or don't have a wealth cushion.

Leadsome is against equal marriage, unmarried people raising kids ... - basically against much of the British public.

She thinks all children should be raised by married heterosexuals?! Sheesh.

Supermum Liverpool is a transformed city thanks to EU funding. It is also a city that voted remain. so I'm not sure why you're mentioning it in regard to leave votes

bigchoc Yes it's true I don't and won't have to struggle to pay the grocery bill but I'm not blind to the vast swathes of people who are struggling because jobs have either been exported to cheaper EE countries or, if they remain in the UK, are staffed by EEs who will accept crappy work conditions because the GBp they send home goes a long way. Our lowest socioeconomic groups have been major losers in this EU deal. That isn't acceptable to me. Our lowest socioeconomic groups are the ones that need the most protection because they are vulnerable. As a British citizen I can stand by and vote for these groups to be continuously shafted so those who have opportunities anyway have an easier ride.

I know there will be short term pain and I've said before I expect there to be some sort of renegotiation with the EU and a 2nd vote. If that doesn't happen then the plans need to be in place to completely leave.

Amys Liverpool One hasn't changed much for the bottom socioeconomic groups in Liverpool. I am there when I visit (about once a month) and if you speak to people they are struggling and the bedroom tax was a disaster in terms of community relations between the different racial / ethnic groups. The EU money spruced everything up but infrastructure is still lacking, minimal investment was put in education and much of the poorest sections of Liverpool were moved over to Birkenhead and Tranmere/Prenton. Of course if you move the poor out Liverpool will be a transformed city.

Let's not forget if you take a look at Liverpool One and the remaining jobs created, the vast majority are minimum wage and flex hours. Those contracts are cruel and where is the EU on making those contracts illegal? My husband and I run a business. We employ people for a fixed number of hours and pay overtime over 40 hours worked (as required by law here in the US). We would not dream of dicking our employees about with their source of income. We even try to keep overtime at minimal levels because we don't want employees to get used to the higher income plus we don't want accidents which is more common when people are stressed and tired.

created, the vast majority are minimum wage and flex hours. Those contracts are cruel and where is the EU on making those contracts illegal?

Yes, this.

We're treating the lowest paid as though they are a whole class of altruistic philanthropists, happy to suffer real poverty and uncertainty to prop everyone else's prosperity up by providing the much vaunted 'flexible workforce'.

How many people have actually stopped to think what that means to someone on minimum wage?

It means every week they don't know if they'll have £280 to cover ALL their living expenses, or £0, or something in between.

I couldn't live like that. I wouldn't survive long . But there's this blithe mass assumption that somehow the WCs are genetically adapted to survive on thin air and be immune to stress.

It's completely barbaric.

Yet we've had two weeks of listening to twats telling us they are angry/crying because their "DCs future has been ruined" by nasty leave voters. On further enquiry, it turns out the potential ruination consists of possibly having to apply for a working visa if they want to work on the continent when they are adults. (Oh the humanity!)

It seems we have become a nation of smug twats.

I think this explains some of the "protest" votes but I have to say the only complaints I've heard about lies in the campaign have come from Remain voters complaining Leavers have been misled. Leavers I have asked have felt patronised by the complaints, one man said "I'm poor, I'm not stupid. We know politicians lie"

One of the problems in Blackpool, very deprived seaside town, is that the EU funding really hasn't benefited the residents here. It enabled the Council to buy Blackpool Tower and the Winter Gardens which are fantastic assets to the town but just look at the prices How can many people afford this, let alone the poor? Many children here grow up never having been in these places
Much of the funding has gone to things like this which might boost tourism but jobs created are often low-paid and going to migrants

Just5 The article I linked to above also makes the point that for a poor person here or in the US the argument that people in China or Africa have been lifted out of poverty by globalisation/migration does not help. The people who are benefiting are the top 1-2% and, as always, that is not trickling down

I'm so glad you started this thread.

It will give the wilfully ignorant the chance to have another bandwagon to really 'get their vitriol on' about.

First it was 17 million Racists! that voted leave.

Debunked.

Then it was Selfish Baby Boomers! that voted leave.

Debunked.

Then it was the Interminably Stupid! that voted leave.

Debunked.

Now they can say The Stupid Thick Northeners That Just Don't Get The EU In All It's Marvellousness! that voted leave.

OP, thank you for thinking of those poor souls who Just Need Someone To Blame And Get Angry At!

I salute you!

Just5 The article I linked to above also makes the point that for a poor person here or in the US the argument that people in China or Africa have been lifted out of poverty by globalisation/migration does not help. The people who are benefiting are the top 1-2% and, as always, that is not trickling down

Stands to reason, doesn't it?

Just Need Someone To Blame And Get Angry At!

You mean like Remainiacs, Remoaners, People Who Talk Britain Down?

Also my DH might make $1 million a year but we are ethical. We are in the food business. We are doing well because part of our selling pitch is that we look after our employees. Our employees come to work in clean clothes and proud. Our competition pays minimum wage and the difference is stark. We also let employees take home whatever food they want. A bit of black market activity is not the end of the world for us. We have a great product and if someone tries it there is a good chance they will buy it themselves.

Good business is when everyone walks away better off. That's how we operate and I believe it's why we have been successful. Yes we could make more and our competitors do but over the long run we are building a very sustainable business.