At last they get it!

[fryingtoday]

Channel 4 at last realise the huge Northern vote was not primarily about immigration but about the decades of politicians having ignored them ...

Let's see how long it takes everyone else to twig and really start to understand why.

No one can answer that now only time will tell. The sooner we have a new PM and get working on this the better

disturbed
For many?? On this forum alone, the absolute majority is saying they have not been given solid reasons AT ALL! are you delusional or just downright ignorant ?
Let's see, you were angry on ex PM who you paid to do your plans for you but he didn't. So to take revenge on him and all his cronies etc, you took a decision that resulted in ousting him (oh wait! You didn't see that coming because he never said he will resign! He said he will start BREXIT straight away!). And now you think you can wait for another PM who will do your bidding because it you who is paying again?
You live in utopia? Is that how this world works in your mind?

I think what the Leave voters and supporters are actually relishing right now is the fact that they have rocked the world of London and the wealthy while in reality it's like Titanic. The poor will again be the ones sinking here. Only this time a large majority of them dug this hole in the bottom of the ship themfuckingselves.

Delusional or downright ignorant

Where have I said I voted leave I never said I voted leave I posted reasons given by people who voted leave.

I voted remain

I want a PM who is taking control as soon as possible absolutely because right now there is not answers to what is going to happen

I think your teacher would mark you down for not reading posts correctly and making assumptions

Those lies and propaganda are more than they have ever been promised before!

FFS, would they have liked to have been promised a unicorn too?

diggers I am out of the country due to my DHs job. I have property in the UK and expect a significant decrease in value. I'm under 40 so I've got enough time to recover.

Also what struck me on my FB feed was that my friends protesting in London are all people who have an education that opens doors worldwide to them. These adults in the north west who I know voted to leave don't have those options available to them and never will.

As it is my brother is leaving the Army and we are looking at having him run a third facility that we would open in the NW. The exchange rate enables us to make that investment that at 1.50 didn't make it financially feasible.

So you'll stay out of the UK until it all recovers? That's a great plan.

And all these educated people on your FB that have doors open to them, should they leave the UK too then? Will we leave it to those on NMW and/or the unskilled to run the country while those that can feck off somewhere better?

That will stop those pesky EE being offered jobs eh

And what's your investment into the UK like, on an EU scale give us the figures.

Those of you demonising the Leave voters are disgusting..

I'm firmly on the Remain side but I become exasperated at the many people on my side complaining about the Leave voters not knowing what they were doing.

Much of this demanding rational reasons for Leaving is simply so that the Remain side can pull apart the non-rational reasons and thus feel better about themselves when they're upset. All well and good as a means of therapy but they have to get to grips with the concept that many Leavers voted on gut-feeling.

If they had grown up in the left behind places they would have a clue. (I did and now lead a very comfortable existence where prosperity abounds.)

If you live a life of zero choice seeing things get worse with each passing year, the prospect of a vote which for once will have an impact is very seductive even if non-rational. My side really needs to get it - people's individual reasons for voting Leave and the possible consequences of doing so are separate things for many. Call them ignorant if you want but as time goes on these people will listen to the name-calling and move wholly out of the reach of rational political arguments.

For the record I think Brexit will be terrible for the UK economy and will usher in a hard Right government which will make Cameron's lot look like the last flowering of a golden and benevolent age. Even if the government's revenue remains the same there will be a noticeable shift from benefits (but not pensions, at least for a while) to tax cuts. If it shrinks, well, I can hardly imagine what's coming.

• it doesn't matter if it's just perception

I agree with you nauticant.

nauticant that's one possible future, yes. But that's not caused by Brexit, or Brexiteers, it is caused by the opposition's chosen reaction to it. There is an astonishing lack of self awareness in the left wing press which I think will be derided in years to come once the dust settles. And I agree with you about the gut feeling comment. Perhaps many Leavers thought, quite logically, that with so many experts around, they could come up with a workable economic strategy outside the EU.

I suspect a lot of Leave voters didn't think the experts were interested in them or their well being. I presume that Leave voters assumed that the experts were inherently biased because of their own position in society. That when an economist says something is good or bad he or she just sees a lot of the people who voted Leave as acceptable collateral damage.

This may not be true. But "experts" attempting to support Remain were spectacularly tone deaf and terrible at communicating to "regular people."

supermum
May be your friends are protesting because they have a good understanding of what's coming the way of people whose majority voted Leave? For once you get that not all of the educated lot are heartless money making machines.

naiticant
I see your point about isolating the Leave voters by our anger. But honestly it's so hard to stay rational when you realise that my work will be affected to the extent that I have to start plans to move out to some other country. It's going to be disastrous at so many levels for so long that I just can't see my anger going down any time soon.

Totally agree with you nauticant

I am hoping since so many people voted to leave that MP's realise they can't be so complacent and work at listening to everyone as this referendum has shown that people are not afraid of change of they are not happy - though I am not sure that will necessarily impacts policies

It's possible to sympathise with the disaffection and anger of this subset of Leave voters while also bewailing the disastrous - at least in the short to medium term - effects that will be hitting us all.

And let's not forget that at the other end of the scale, some (presumably) rather well-off and privileged folk in the Home Counties also voted to Leave.

The narrative of many though is you dumb fuckers don't you get you are going to be poorer

Valentine2 (though I understand your anger) unintentionally perfectly illustrated how people don't listen (or read) make assumptions and belittle other people's intelligence. If this is how many people felt about politicians (and I think we can all relate to feeling politicians try and fool the public) is it any wonder they didn't listen to them and ignored the experts that backed up what they were saying

diggers Friends protesting are doing so because 'we want to be able to work and study in Europe.' Well I thought their argument was a little flawed. The last time I checked anyone with their education and experience should have no problems doing so. I though the came across as a bunch of sore losers. The money you talk about, was a net movement of money to Europe. Also we just got off the hook for paying for the bailout of German banks via the rescue packages that will be needed for Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece.

Trade with Europe hasn't stopped. WTO agreements are already there. Yes we are not part of a free trade block with Europe but that doesn't mean trade stops.

The real disgrace of this whole referendum lies with DC who resigned when he didn't get his way. The fact the government doesn't have a plan still is unacceptable.

Oh and as to EU funding, I know for Liverpool that funding has not created much of anything for anyone apart from the Duke of Westminster, owner of Liverpool One. Billions pumped into Liverpool from the EU went into building new homes. The homes were built using foreign labour and the same poverty exists today in those homes as existed before. The museums etc that are there on the waterfront were paid with government/EU grants. Well those in poverty living in Liverpool can afford the bus fare to get to the museum. Apologies to middle class families who will probably have to pay to enter those museums now.

We have a huge problem with the level of poverty in the UK that hasn't been addressed in years. It starts by making places like the warehouse in the NW making people go through horrendous searches, working for free and in fear of losing their job an unlawful working practice. Being in the EU isn't what people in poverty need. They need jobs and an education that enables them to support their families. The EU undermines all efforts to do that when they give grants to companies to move production out of the UK.

Also, the uncomfortable truth is that I would be fine in the UK too. I've got a good education and a strong work ethic. There are opportunities available to me always. I also have the ability to go out and create opportunities for myself.

That investment will happen in their areas that provides jobs

If Tories get in that wont happen, I am not saying that labour will be any better but Tories it definitely wont. Every time Tories get in north and those on low income suffer.

That there will be less compition for skilled and unskilled positions allowing workers to have a little more control

If tories get in their Brexit camp said we need to get cut employment benefits to make business more profitable, so wages may go up but benefits go down. Companies will complain to government that there business's aren't viable if they cant pay shit wages with shit conditions, and then there will have to be some fudge to tax credits probably.

That some areas will not have the ongoing high numbers of people moving into the area where services are already stretched

services are stretched on a lot of the country, though the perception of stretched is also variable. If people want low taxes then you get crap services its not rocket science.

Less red tape often problematic for small business

See above, maternity pay, sick pay etc, again shafts the low income.

Farmers able to have more control over who they sell too and what hey produce

Supermarkets dictate a lot tbh

All this talk about how good the EU is, it only seems benefit a few people it hasn't made our lives any better things are getting harder

Well it works in other countries - because it doesn't in our is because we have rubbish government. I bet all that EU social funding wont be matched, or any of the other support.

Im still waiting for leavers to tell me which party are going to deliver this new 'democratic world' and not a tory wet dream.

I have an international job and I live in the Midlands. I am surrounded by leave voters and because of where I live I could see this coming. Things have got worse and worse here year by year. Most jobs on offer are MW and part time. There is little investment in infrastructure, poor schooling and government cuts have hit the poorest disproportionately hard. It was a protest vote, but from where I live you can see why

sorry enthusiasm - forgot you were a remainer - but it is frustrating that most of the problems are due to our government, and we could have done with some protest voting in the general elections.

Exactly, BreakingDad. That's what so frustrating for remainers. Protest vote at general election - not for something so important and which is likely to leave you worse off.

I think UKIP has been a protest vote.

"I have an international job and I live in the Midlands. I am surrounded by leave voters and because of where I live I could see this coming. Things have got worse and worse here year by year. Most jobs on offer are MW and part time. There is little investment in infrastructure, poor schooling and government cuts have hit the poorest disproportionately hard. It was a protest vote, but from where I live you can see why" elastamum This post strikes a chord. It is desperately crap that government has left vast areas of the UK to decline in this way. No way is this going to get better outside of the EU, it will get worse.

It makes me wonder of Brexit was what the conservative party wanted all along. DC was done politically anyway and is going to retire to a well off lovely family life, considering their family assets and off shore investments. They delivered a shit campaign which was probably intentional as the Leave vote has paved the way for an ultra neo-liberal economy, which will benefit some and screw most.
Brexit has been a massive gas lighting exercise. Most gas lighting works extremely well.

Queen it's ironic that you use Martin Luther Kings quote as sound byte to support your idea of the wronged 'Brexiter' seeing that MLK fought against racism and bigotry all his life. You can use the same quote wrt EU immigrants and the Daily Mail. It's just a sound byte not too substantial.

That is not Martin Luther King in that picture or his quote it is Malcom X

There was a great quote on a programme I watched, from a pub landlord who had voted Leave. He said "we're not turkeys voting for Christmas. We're voting to stop the production line". It reminded me of the miners and the conclusion that the victory was in the struggle itself (I think Scargill said that). I think that the Brexit vote will be romanticised in much the same way in years to come. Doesn't make it any less shit in the short term, but doesn't mean it was worthless either.