Has anyone learnt anything?

[Namehanger]

I am a remainer and have spent about two hours a day reading threads and articles on Brexit. I started angry, got angrier but am now calming down.

I have disagreed with a huge amount of what posters who voted to leave the EU have said. So what I have learnt?

• I sort of knew but had underestimated how difficult life is in some parts of the UK
• that some posters had good reasons for leaving the EU.
• that immigration is patchy and is an issue in some areas
• buy to let landlords in the SE, buy cheap property in the North and turn them into HMO's filled with immigrants
• how totally morally bankrupt some politicians are, it is one thing fiddling your expenses but to create this shitstorm
• everyone has been let down, both people who voted in and out of the EU. We are a tolerant, outgoing nation.

I am no longer going to use the labels of remain and leave. They have now become full of bile and hatred.

I have learned that some here consider themselves tolerant left wing intellectuals, when in actual fact, the prejudices they harbour are frighteningly fascist. (And fascism falls left and right.)

Well nobody is without prejudice and snobbery goes both ways. So much vitriol has gone both ways.

And yeah, I know, I said truce and I still believe that, but it has to be said. The supposedly tolerant 'thinkers' are the most intolerant of them all. Hard truth to take, But truth nonetheless...

I wish I could comment on the NI situation, but I cannot and will not pretend to understand more about it than those who experience it on a daily basis.

Thefuture - but the people who perceive they 'lost' something are more likely to be angrier and therefore spew more c**p in the short term.

That I cannot disagree with Namehanger...

Another thought-
I hadn't realised people thought of themselves as European.

And the concept of going to work/live in another country wasn't something I realised many people did. It never occurred to me that it was something people considered important. I never ever felt it was an option for me, so I didn't realise it was for many others.

I have learnt there is someone even more cunt-some than Murdoch.

I've learnt that lots of people have no compassion for others who are hurting and afraid.

I'm a remain voter, and I have learnt that you must not in any way attempt to overturn the will of the majority in a democratic country.

I have learnt that some leave voters are passionate, bright and intelligent people, and should not be tarred with a brush.

I have learnt that some fellow remain voters are abusive, obstructive and non-tolerant, and should be called out on it.

I have learnt that we should now make peace with our countries desicion, and work hard together to make a country we can be proud of.

How terrifyingly fragile our social cohesion is.

Great post, I really like the idea of shedding the Leave and Remain labels as I have learnt there are so many people on here with very well articulated arguments for both sides and who genuinely care - that's what's overwhelmed me, that the vast majority voted whichever way they did because they wanted a better world. Thank you OP for posting this

That we all need to listen more.

Off to bed, thanks for all the positive posts, I have a smile on my face for the first time in a week.

I have learnt that it's not the Leavers who are the prejudiced ones, it's the Remainers who have collectively labelled all leavers as racist, thick and ignorant, refusing to acknowledge that they may have had valid, non-racist, non-immigration-related reasons for voting as they did.

I feel judged, dismissed, patronised and a 2nd class citizen in what is supposedly a democratic country. I do not like my fellow remainers much right now.

To be clear, when I say 'fellow remainers' I meant 'fellow' as in citizens of this country - I was and am a Brexiter.

That we all need to take responsibility for our society. There is no 'them', only 'us'.

Also how staggeringly incompetent many of our politicians are!

That this is more true than ever ( paraphrasing ):

"The only thing that is necessary for evil to prevail is that good men ( or women, obvs ) to do nothing.

*no to, Bugger!

I, as a remainer, have learned that our politicians have screwed us all over. All of us. Each and everyone.

(My 18 year Dd thinks this was never about a referendum but about in-fighting within the Tory party over who was going to be the next prime minister)

Your 18 yr old is pretty astute!

And that leavers are still bleating on about being not prejudiced. Cough.

Thank you Destiny. She was one of the few of her age group to actually vote. I'm proud of her.

I have learnt that the gvmt sells the fishing quotas and then blames the EU.

That the PLP learned nothing about democracy from that vote and still think the solution to a massive backlash from people who want to be heard is to not listen to them and make decisions for them (Corbyn).

And that when the media play a diversionary tactic to shift the blame, the PLP are dumb enough to go along with them.

I knew this, but I think some of the Tories are surprised to be the last to know that the ambitious amongst their ranks are backstabbing shits with no understanding of how ludicrous it looks when they accuse others of not being trustworthy. They will stop at nothing to get to the top of the heap.

I think a lot of people also learned that you underestimate Nicola Sturgeon at your peril. Both she and Alec Salmond are extremely canny politicians (and unlike their machiavellian Tory rivals considerably less likely to shoot themselves in the foot)

And that Power Monkeys is very very funny.

Yes Power Monkeys is hilarious.

Dh and I have also been reminiscing about The Thick Of It. The whole debacle of the last week could have been an episode. In fact they should get the team back together just to do it, so that we can all laugh at them whilst Malcolm Tucker calls them all cunts

That 'celebratory racism' is a new and disturbing phenomenon...

(1) That the UK has not been teaching enough about current affairs / politics in schools. Amongst adults, critical thinking seems to be low, while young voter apathy is also high.

I grew up in the EU. When my final year at school coincided with election year at school, we literally had weeks of mock ballot training. You could select more than one candidate (I believe 2-3... it's a while ago, can't remember). Teachers would ask us why we selected what we selected, and pointed out when the candidates you selected were way too random, e.g. the policies of the first candidate selected was the opposite of candidate 2. They'd ask us why we selected those two. They weren't influencing you in any way, they just wanted to make sure you knew what you were doing.

On election day, the teachers chucked us out, so that all of us could go to the polling stations. By that time, you knew what you were going to choose, and that your choice was done rationally rather than emotionally.

Teachers also took us on demonstrations, etc. They really wanted you to get involved.

(2) That the two main parties in the UK are a mess.

(3) That the media is even more corrupt than I thought it was.

(4) Britain is truly an island.