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Brexit
Original poster

Has anyone learnt anything?

227 replies

Namehanger · 02/07/2016 21:13

I am a remainer and have spent about two hours a day reading threads and articles on Brexit. I started angry, got angrier but am now calming down.

I have disagreed with a huge amount of what posters who voted to leave the EU have said. So what I have learnt?

  • I sort of knew but had underestimated how difficult life is in some parts of the UK
  • that some posters had good reasons for leaving the EU.
  • that immigration is patchy and is an issue in some areas
  • buy to let landlords in the SE, buy cheap property in the North and turn them into HMO's filled with immigrants
  • how totally morally bankrupt some politicians are, it is one thing fiddling your expenses but to create this shitstorm
  • everyone has been let down, both people who voted in and out of the EU. We are a tolerant, outgoing nation.

I am no longer going to use the labels of remain and leave. They have now become full of bile and hatred.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 03/07/2016 17:14

Most people get the idea that this thread is about looking at the other side of the argument.

I spent a week in Belgrade in Serbia a couple of years ago with young people whose lives had been directly affected by conflict.

The summer school was about the peace process after conflict.

Namehanger, I've learnt over many years that looking at the other side, in a process after peace is only half of the solution. You also have to look very hard and very deeply about the faults and weaknesses of your own side. This is much harder to do.

Original poster
Namehanger · 03/07/2016 17:36

Red tooth - good point

OP posts:
cardoon · 03/07/2016 17:53
StrictlyMumDancing · 03/07/2016 18:08

In a bad way I've learnt that there are people out there from all backgrounds or political leanings who will use things like this as an excuse to take whatever problems they see fit out on others.

I've also learnt that I will never be British enough for some people despite having one British parent who's family can be traced back to the 1600s at least and having been born here and never living anywhere else.

But in a good way I learned so much about the EU and our own government and country.

I've also realised mumsnet is full of bloody intelligent people who have more of a clue about real life and can articulate a viewpoint far better and far more sincerely than any politician or journalist. Next general election I'm not going to avoid these posts in fear of bun fights, I'm going to get involved and ask and learn from you all.

Joysmum · 03/07/2016 18:14

I've learnt that, on the whole, leave and Remainers have much in common but weight these things differently and reached a different outcome as a result.

I've also learnt that generalisations about why we think everybody voted the way they did doesn't hold true, nor does the supposed profile of each side.

Lighteningirll · 03/07/2016 18:27

Just wanted to say thank you for those links Lolo very interesting

tabulahrasa · 03/07/2016 18:27

"Most people get the idea that this thread is about looking at the other side of the argument and discovering things they didn't know"

The problem is that what I've learned is just that people are pretty ignorant...

I knew there are huge inequalities in the UK, that freedom of movement benefits us too, what in my area is funded by EU grants, I knew how the EU works, who my MEPs are and what committees they're on and how often they attend, that Northern Ireland was going to be a huge problem with a leave vote and that it wouldn't be great for Gibraltar either, that it's hugely unlikely that we'll get to control immigration and be in the single market, that racism is an issue and that politicians will say and do pretty much anything to get what they want and that that is often to do with their own career rather than what's good for us...

And I thought these were just things that people knew, it turns out they don't.

I wish I had learned something interesting or even better something positive, but I didn't.

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs · 03/07/2016 18:42

Tell you who hasn't learnt anything though.

Tony Blair. When will he learn no one wants to hear what he thinks? because no one trusts him and even fewer people like him.

Wordsaremything · 03/07/2016 19:14

I've learned to take careful note of the issues proposed for referendum, and the wording of them. And to campaign for genuine majority voting on matters of constitutional significance.

RedToothBrush · 03/07/2016 19:58

Tony Blair. When will he learn no one wants to hear what he thinks? because no one trusts him and even fewer people like him.

And this surprises you?!

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs · 03/07/2016 20:00

No it doesn't surprise me. I said he needs to learn what the rest of us already knowGrin

MangoMoon · 03/07/2016 20:38

In all honesty, is there anyone who actually truly likes Tony Blair?

I fucking hate him - with a passion that is unsurpassed.

I just have to hear his name and I have a physical reaction - I tense up all over and stick my jaw out.

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2016 21:09

I remember when Tony Blair was first elected. It felt so completely fantastic. And he did a lot of good stuff- which is rightly forgotten in the light of his policies about Irqq.

And actually, I though he was wise and measured about Brexit last weekend.

He's still a war criminal, though.

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs · 03/07/2016 21:14

bertrand I was happy too. Briefly.

He could be saying the most reasonable thing ever but the fact that he thinks people should listen to him, makes it offensive.

StrictlyMumDancing · 03/07/2016 21:22

I think I've just learnt that there is one thing that could unite us all. Hatred of Blair

Figmentofmyimagination · 03/07/2016 21:26

I have learned (although tbh I sort of already discovered this, at least in part, soon after may 2015) that however dubious the libdems looked, cosying up to the conservatives in coalition, in reality they were doing a fucking brilliant job and we shouldn't have punished them electorally speaking. We'd all be in a far better place today if they were still a credible force of 50 or so mps.

(I'm off to join them shortly to translate my learning into action!)

CaptainBrickbeard · 03/07/2016 21:27

I marched against the Iraq war. It was that sense of betrayal that was so incomprehensible- it all seemed so hopeful when Blair got in; why did he take us to war? I'll never understand it.

StarOnTheTree · 03/07/2016 21:28

20 years ago whilst I was doing a youth work qualification I took part in an activity. We were split into 3 groups, given some vouchers to represent money and told how we needed to trade and make more money. The activity was fun, my group was doing fine, not as good as one group who seemed to get lots of extras from the 'people in charge' but not as bad as the other group who seemed to get penalised constantly. At the end of the activity we were told that each group represented the class system in Britain.

The tutors said that each group had performed equally well but they had intentionally given one group privileges and unfairly penalised one group. I was in the middle class group and it still horrifies me now that I was happy in my middle class bubble doing ok in 'life' whilst other people were being penalised through no fault of their own so they didn't make any money and couldn't help themselves to improve their lives. I knew that they were giving one group a really hard time but I presumed that those people were doing something wrong and to be honest I was having so much fun trading and making money that I didn't really care. It had a profound effect on me.

I have learnt that this referendum is making people think more about these inequalities, like the OP and others on this thread, but also that some people still don't see it. This thread has been very interesting to read.

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2016 21:34

I remember that feeling too, Captain Brickbeard. The utter incomprehension.

loobyloo1234 · 03/07/2016 21:41

Bliar ... the one person that can unite anyone with a brain cell. When will he be tried for what he did? Confused Damn him and him pulling the wool over the eyes of all that voted him in, the fucking war criminal

MangoMoon · 03/07/2016 21:49

It was an exciting feeling when he got in, wasn't it.

I never liked him one bit though - I think I went off him properly right near the very start with his jumping all over the Diana thing, but it was still a feeling of great political change.

Grrr. I detest him Angry

BengalCatMum · 03/07/2016 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

odapanda · 03/07/2016 23:08

I've learned that even in prosperous countries people are willing to gamble with their own future for beautiful unrealistic ideas.

MangosteenSoda · 04/07/2016 02:37

People argue more on the internet than in real life.

There is a huge amount of dissatisfaction in the UK.

People know very little about the way government and international organisations function. I think this should be included in school curriculums going forward.

It's very easy to whip up public sentiment based on very little fact and very little critical analysis. I find this scary.