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Brexit
Original poster

Has anyone learnt anything?

227 replies

Namehanger · 02/07/2016 21:13

I am a remainer and have spent about two hours a day reading threads and articles on Brexit. I started angry, got angrier but am now calming down.

I have disagreed with a huge amount of what posters who voted to leave the EU have said. So what I have learnt?

  • I sort of knew but had underestimated how difficult life is in some parts of the UK
  • that some posters had good reasons for leaving the EU.
  • that immigration is patchy and is an issue in some areas
  • buy to let landlords in the SE, buy cheap property in the North and turn them into HMO's filled with immigrants
  • how totally morally bankrupt some politicians are, it is one thing fiddling your expenses but to create this shitstorm
  • everyone has been let down, both people who voted in and out of the EU. We are a tolerant, outgoing nation.

I am no longer going to use the labels of remain and leave. They have now become full of bile and hatred.

OP posts:
Playduh · 03/07/2016 08:34

Captain - or...

We could pull out, get a head start whilst the finances of the eurozone collapse into themselves and look into joining TPP. (Not to be mistaken with TIPP)

I have no idea whether you are right or the above is a better strategy. Maybe both are perfectly viable. The point I'm making is - who knows? There are so many options.

blinkowl · 03/07/2016 08:35

"So we are all thick if not under 35 then"

Come on, surely you know that's not what the PP is saying.

The poster is not saying everyone over 35 is thick. But they are saying, specifically, that education standards about politics and economics are low.

Thst may well be the case. I am over 35 and got all my education about politics from my family, none from school. How about you? It may be a fair comment. How can we move forward if we are unwilling to to critically examine ourselves and our society?

Figmentofmyimagination · 03/07/2016 08:37

I've learned that the Daily Mail is the world's most visited website, apparently, which I find concerning for our democracy.

Playduh · 03/07/2016 08:41

Figment - how many people are on there for the politics and how many are just looking at pics of Kimye? Grin

loobyloo1234 · 03/07/2016 08:46

I love this thread. I'm Leave

*I've learnt that Mumsnet does not represent what most people in my RL have been feeling. The hype and scaremongering on here has been beyond depressing
*I've also learnt never to judge any of my friends for the way they voted. They haven't judged me either and we have been able to have healthy, intellectual debates - about politics - who would have thought Smile
*I've learnt that most people voted either way after giving it a considerable amount of thought
*I've learnt that the media manipulates (or tries to) the way we think and what side to be on. They are hateful and racism was around way before a referendum. What a shame it's taken this for them to highlight how despicable some people are
*I've learnt that David Cameron is a wet wipe who got voted in by some as he promised a referendum, and as soon as it didn't go his way, he jumped ship right at the very worst time. I think he should have gone, but eventually and I have learnt that I think he should go down in history as a weak minded, weak willed and unable to listen to his public PM

Above all else, I've learnt that some people on here are very very tolerant, and some are not. I think that makes me sad more than happy though as if only the tolerant posts had appeared earlier on instead of the hateful one's that were within every thread posted

Figmentofmyimagination · 03/07/2016 08:47

Playduh - tee hee - I don't think the research is that sophisticated.

Playduh · 03/07/2016 08:49

Just think, if Kimye had been remainers, the country could be a very different place...Grin

Original poster
Namehanger · 03/07/2016 08:52

I am over 35, was scared by the Falklands War and started to read my parents broadsheet. Leading to a lifelong interest in History and Politics including my first degree and a recent masters.

Didn't do any research on the EU. Knew that I thought it was a good thing from the moment the referendum was announced. Why? Social cohesion, two centuries of wars that engulfed Europe becoming more and more destructive. In this even more fractured environment with more displaced people, extreme ideologies, a dearth of western leadership and more powerful weapons the world has become more dangerous. Anyone, anything, that promotes co-operation, communication has to be supported.

Bit off topic.

Politics is endlessly fascinating and important and if the one result that comes from this shit storm is that more people, especially our young people, ask more questions.

OP posts:
HoneyDragon · 03/07/2016 08:56

I've learned that a larg number of fellow citizens have nothing but contempt for British manufacturing, both in the leave and remain camps.

I've discovered that despite not discussing my personal voting choice at all with anyone, or hardly discussing it in rl at all that I look like a racist. Not sound like one, or behave like one. But look like one before I even open my mouth. That was interesting.

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2016 08:57

I've learned that hearts are very good at pumping and guts are very good at absorbing nutrition, but they are not the organs we should use when deciding how to vote.

MadSprocker · 03/07/2016 09:10

I have learned that people didn't realise that their vote would count.

I have learned that people didn't realise that the politicians were lying about what would happen after a leave vote.

I have learned that there are very intolerant people around from both sides.

I am hoping that we don't lose rights that we have gained over the past 40 years, especially maternity rights.

Figmentofmyimagination · 03/07/2016 09:10

I have learned, more seriously, that it is (was?) perilously easy to lose the UK's biggest commercial USP, which is (was?) predictability.

14Years · 03/07/2016 09:11

That people will keep trotting out the 'turkey voting for Christmas' crap without asking themselves exactly why a turkey might want to vote for Christmas.

Also that some people get absolutely incandescent with rage at the thought of the less well off/ poorly educated/ Northern/ older/ whatever's vote being worth just as much as theirs.

AlcoChocs · 03/07/2016 09:13

I've learnt why previous generations followed the maxim "Never Discuss Politics or Religion". It always leads to conflict and division.

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2016 09:22

I have learned that self harm is something that communities can do collectively. And I worry very much about what will happen when the immediate release of stress and tension that the act gives proves to be illusory, and that stress and tension builds up again - but worse.

GoodLoveShinesBrightly · 03/07/2016 09:24

That a huge amount of people have no understanding really of how the world works and very little interest in finding out. That Britain is far more isolationist and inward-looking than I realised. That I won't ever be going back (I knew that really), it's a different country to the one I thought I knew.

Helmetbymidnight · 03/07/2016 09:26

That catchphrases are better than plans.

GoodLoveShinesBrightly · 03/07/2016 09:27

Also that some people get absolutely incandescent with rage at the thought of the less well off/ poorly educated/ Northern/ older/ whatever's vote being worth just as much as theirs.
I don't think anyone's vote is less than mine but it does distress me if the very people who will suffer most from Brexit vote for it based on misinformation. They will be sorely disappointed and hav far more to lose. It's not fair, that's not how things should be, it's just heaping crap and suffering on crap and suffering. I understand the anger but it's so frustrating to see it directed at the wrong enemy.

LynetteScavo · 03/07/2016 09:32

I've learned my hairdresser is a xenophobic twat who thinks it's acceptable to express their views to clients because most of the county agrees with them, apparently.

I'm now trying to figure out how to change all the appointments I have booked in for the next 12 months to another stylist.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 03/07/2016 09:34

Learnt that a lot of the country's people have been left behind.

Life is likely to be a bit more shit for lots of people now - but for a lot of people it's already shit and has been for decades. I'm scared about the economy going down the toliet and losing my job.
If you've got fuck all to begin with fear of loss isn't going to have much of an impact.

Unescorted · 03/07/2016 09:40

Lynette I would tell them "I would like to cancel all my appontments with you because you are a xenophobic twat" That way they may understand that their views have consequences.

babybythesea · 03/07/2016 09:47

I've learnt to question how democracy works. In that, it is apparently perfectly possible to lie, not just spin, but outright knowingly lie, and for there to be no comeback. And I think of everything that happens from here forwards, I want to see this change. Either because there is some sort of independent fact checking system put into place so politicians cannot use deliberately untrue or misleading statements, or some sort of redress after (knowing they could be what? prosecuted? I'm not sure, but something). I would prefer the former, so that people who don't do any research can still be sure of the facts on which they are making their decision. We have it in advertising, and any other contract where people admit to lying would be declared null and void, it disturbs me that the biggest thing in any of our lives is not subject to the same scrutiny.

I have also discovered how little actual information people think they need in order to make a big decision. People on here on the whole have looked into the whole thing in detail. People in RL on the whole, not so much. It has staggered me. This dismissing of experts worries me. Am I as good as the next person generally? Yup. Are they as good as me? Absolutely. Am I as good at them when it comes to flying a plane, if they happen to be an RAF pilot? No. When it comes to a complex political decision, if they are a top class economist, am I every bit as good? No. Should I make my own decision based on my own non-knowledge instead of listening to them? No. Yet lots did, on both sides. Just so happened leave won, but there are loads of remain voters who also didn't pay any attention to anything, just happened to end up on the losing side so we don't hear as much. I learnt that a respect for knowledge and experience has been overturned in favour of 'we are all equal' and actually, I think, sometimes we are not. Knowing when we are not and looking for answers and help is not a weakness, it is a strength, and what makes us all more rounded and more informed.

tabulahrasa · 03/07/2016 09:47

I've learned that people are ignorant TBH. Sad

That there are people who didn't even consider Northern Ireland (and no I'm not from there).

That people don't understand how the EU works, or in fact lots of other associated things.

That people didn't know politicians lie.

That there really was no plan that I missed while trying to research leave, that people really were voting with no idea what would happen and don't even see that as an issue.

That people on mumsnet assume everyone is middle class and middle aged that when they start discussing different sections of society and how they voted or how equal those votes are, that those people are on here too.

That people don't see racism if it doesn't affect them.

BertrandRussell · 03/07/2016 09:48

I have also learned that people say things like "Also that some people get absolutely incandescent with rage at the thought of the less well off/ poorly educated/ Northern/ older/ whatever's vote being worth just as much as theirs" because it's a really effective way of shutting down discussion.