Why are Leave voters afraid of a second referendum? Don't they trust the results?

[MrsJackAubrey]

If you really believe in democracy and that the Leave vote was the will of the people, then surely you will be confident that a second referendum would have exactly the same outcome?

But Leavers aren't, are they - they're terrified of a second referendum because they know that the results would be Remain.

From which we can infer that there is actually a real lack of depth, of meaning, in the Leave vote, given that it would be overturned in a second referendum. Which totally supports the view that there should be a second referendum.

Lou our "ancestors" did not fight for independence or democracy. The First World War was fought over colonialism and Britain and others determination that Germany was not to become a colonial power

The second WW was fought because the allies stitched Germany up so fucking tight to punish them for WW1 that the German people were extremely vulnerable to a far right power who used Germans' frustration, and sense of powerlessness, to climb to power. Democratically I might add: Hitler was elected before he changed the rules to stop future elections.

And frankly I fear we've just paved the way for a similar Nationalist far right bully to run the Uk.

What power? Power over what? Our greatest political talents are stumbling along clueless.

We are at the back of the queue.

We had power within the union. Well we fucked that.

Now all I hear are Leavers whimpering about change and that old dog taking back control.

It's like a huge really really unfunny joke.

Thefuturecouldbebright
I agree Rorty, but apparently tying yourself up in knots, sinking into a deep depression and demanding something that will never happen is the most productive fashionable thing to do at the moment.

I really do think its time for people to start to come to terms with reality, for the sake of the UK and the sake of their own sanity.

Falling out with friends and family, crying yourself to sleep, taking tiny tarquin and a quinoa luncheon to a pointless and potentially violent protest gets you nowhere. By all means, keep throwing your energy into it if thats how you feel, but at least try to understand the futility of it all and begin to face up to life as it stands today.

I agree with every word. I have never read such pathetic whining as I've read on MN since last Friday. Oh you forgot the seven year old so traumatised by the result that all tv and newspapers have been banned from the house [snort]. Not forgetting the abuse and lies thrown at Leavers. You can almost see them stamping their feet a bit like Violet Bottt

I'm furious with David Cameron. If he had remained independent of either side, he would still be PM and should have been starting to extricate us from the EU, instead of which we have this shambolic leadership contest which delays the whole process. I'm a Conservative voter but I'm not sure i can forgive them for this debacle.

While our political leaders are bickering and blaming and stabbing each other in the back, Theresa Fucking May has cottoned onto the fact that all the racists have woken from their coma. All she needs to say is I WILL SEND ALL THE IMMIGRANTS BACK and she will float into the plummiest job in Britain.

Oh look she just did.

Ipsos MORI poll on over 1000 says 92% of leavers would NOT change there vote. 5% would choose remain and 2% of remainers would change to leave.

So no I don't think there would be a land slide to remain on a second ref.

bucking I'm sure the millions of people who died fighting for this country in those two wars may have a differnt opinion to you.

Say there was a 2nd referendum. And Remain won... Should it stop there? It would be 1-1, and there would need to be another one to determine the winner... Best of 3!

I think maybe we should just switch to tossing a coin for all important decisions. It would be quicker and cheaper.
Oh hang on, that makes as much sense as asking for a second referendum on something because it didn't go the way 48% of voters wanted...

What power have we got back exactly?. If we want trade agreements we will still need to allow free movement and pay money to EU. Yet we will be on the outside looking in with no power. We had power within the EU. Plus we won't have much sovereignty when Scotland goes it alone and NI goes in with the Irish Republic. Both possibilities.
To the person talking about FtSe rallying was that 100 or 250?

Like the opinion polls got it right 1St time. If they had the leaves wouldn't have started a petition before the results were in and Farage had said if it was close he would remind a new referendum.

Please also quit the sore losers thing. Many have already posted on here about job losses. This is major not a football match

highland that's not true. No deals have been struck up, nothing about still paying in or allowing freedom of movement. Nothing has been decided.

Countries outside the EU are already letting it be known that they are intrested in doing buisness, even Obama has massively back peddled. That gives us s better position to see what we actually want out of the 'devorce'

I didn't see any petition before the vote and does it really matter? Lots of people are convinced that the leavers are regretting their choice of vote. But they aren't. Ive seen a hand full of regretters on here and a couple of women in the radio but in real life I don't know any one that regrets it.

On the news today a steel works factory entire work force voted out. And 100% of the voters were still firm leavers. I think now the hysteria is dying down we will start to see more balanced reporting.

They has been loads of discussion by leave supporter about having an arrangement like Norway which is precisely that.
So what are the alternative. Abandon EU trade agreements and trade with far more distant countries geographically. Pushing prices up
Yes the petition existed along with the campaign about using a pen so they can't erase your vote .

Of course the existence of a petition matters when remain supporters are constantly being branded sore losers. Farage and his camp would have been just as unaccepting of the result.

This question in itself is hypocritical.

^If you really believe in democracy. . .
^
If you really believe in democracy and that the leave vote was the will of the people you would let it be, because it's a democratic vote. You wouldn't ask for more chances to get the result you want. That's not how it works I'm afraid.

highland Norway got a shit deal. Most leavers know this. Not all leavers want this . It does not necessarily mean that it will cost more to import and now we will be able to make new free trade arrangements with USA, India and China - which were not allowed to do before.

We are unlikelyely to get a better deal than Norway given the way Farage wound them up.
Logistically it will cost more though in terms of fuel etc.
Still it had happened. Realistically it is still early days and it is pointless dwelling on it but I can see it being s rocky road ahead.

Why? Nothing revolves around Farage. Nothing he will not be included in any talks. Britain will not be entering in a Norway agreement.

The EU are going to be far more interested in their own self interest than some twatty ex MEP.

I think we will be able to negotiate better in the end as we are a larger economy and have more influence as a result.

I can see it being a rocky road ahea

Yep, it will be.

Everyone keeps saying no second referendum because it's democracy...

Well, I'd just like to say we live in a parliamentary democracy and not a direct democracy. To me, that means any referenda can be used as expressing our voices on issues, but we do not have a direct say (except legally binding ones) because the whole point of our democratic system is that we employ parliament to make those decisions on our behalf.

With regards to this referendum, I feel that people voted leave... So govt needs to explore alternative models. To see if something better can be found. (Although the promise of points system immigration + free trade deals as promised by Boris in the campaign has been categorically rejected by the EU). Then after exploring the options, then govt must make that decision on behalf of the best interests of our country. If it had been a remain vote, then they would not explore the other options.

That's how a parliamentary democracy works. Democracy is a process, not an event. So to say people have voted, therefore we must leave completely misunderstands the point of our democratic system.

Sorry.. Missed a bit out...

Refenda in our system is a voice, but it is not a final decision. The decision lies with parliament not the people... That's how a parliamentary democracy works...

I doubt there will be a repeat referendum, especially because of the 4 million signatures, a huge proportion of them are know to be either repeats or do not qualify to sign.

That said, if leavers are concerned about people changing their vote, I would think it's more to do with being upset that so many people are angry. It's like an abusive relationship where you roll over because you are made to feel extremely uncomfortable, and your decision is undermined on a very personal and unjust level. That would be the biggest reason for any change of vote and it is a shame on those who have bullied people of a different opinion to themselves.

I know people who actively hate leavers now. But I don't know a single leaver who hates a remainer.

I voted Remain. I am alarmed by all the weasel words, and stretching and twisting and trying to back out of the result. It furthers the uncertainty. And any kind of mealy mouthed, technical "get-out" will chip away at our democracy.

The facts are:

1. We were promised a referendum
2. We were promised that if the country voted to leave, article 50 would be triggered
3. The country voted leave
4. We are now in a political disarray because no one planned
5. A significant minority of the country who are quite powerful want a "do-over" and keep re-arguing the case

Imho, we need to start moving forward and to quit wounding ourselves. A whole bunch of people who are used to being right and getting their own way didn't, and they need to come to terms with that and regain their dignity for the good of the whole country. Yes, we are a parliamentary democracy, but our parliament gave us a vote and told us they would respect it. If they wanted the final decision, they never should have held the referendum in the first place. I can only imagine the long term damage to our country if they find a way to justify some sort of technical coup. It's not okay to turn Britain into a banana republic no matter how "right" you think you are.

Just a thought, wouldn't it be funny if the EU kicked us out under article 7 for being "undemocratic" because we didn't trigger article 50?