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Brexit

The Remain camp's vile apocalyptic narrative

346 replies

mamamea · 29/06/2016 19:07

A lot of Remainers seem to believe that 52% of the country are evil racists. Minor racist incidents are being made into front page news.

Some people seem to think that racism was invented last Thursday. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing - the media always have a story to push, and they will seize on any incident that fits that, while rejecting those that don't.

The police have come out and said that the media and the ludicrous Remainers who are determined that our country has turned into a post-apocalyptic hellhole in the space of 24 hours, are talking bollocks, frankly. Facts, however, are not all that important, when there is a 'our country is going to become a hellhole in the space of a few months' narrative to push because people have not got their way.

Remain insist that we are going bust, or perhaps have gone bust already. Everything that will happen in the future, on any subject, is going to be terrible - we will be gassed due to hitherto EU-inhibited pollution, we will lose all our employment rights and become slaves, The Troubles will restart in Northern Ireland, and so the narrative goes on and on and on, with any p.

I have never seen such an absurd response to ANY event in Britain, but for me it absolutely confirms what I have long since suspected about the so-called liberal left - that they are anything but liberal, they only accept THEIR viewpoint, and anything other than this will be ruthlessly slandered and derided. Similar responses are typically seen when the Conservative party wins an election - but this surpasses anything seen after 2010 or 2015. The Remain camp are organising demonstrations which they, absurdly, claim are supposed to demonstrate togetherness, but have names like 'Manchester stays' (which clearly demonstrate that they are intended to exclude the 52% of the population that wants to Leave, and indeed could be interpreted as an ultimatum).

No-one from the Reman side seems interested in genuinely working together to write a positive 'Leave' story for the future (nobody's saying, for instance, 'let's emulate Norway', they instead if they do reference Norway, it's to further deprecate the Leavers by saying how stupid it would be to Leave only to go with the Norwegian model, which is just the same (except of course it can't be because they are determined that Leave is a highway to hell, so they must hold the contrary position of insisting that Leave position x is not worth the trouble, while Leave position y is evil)). They prefer instead engage in nihilistic rhetoric about racism and economic doom, and fling insults at those involved with Leave. (Leave leader X is posh, Leave leader Y went to private school, Leave voters are stupid, inbred and racist, so old they aren't entitled to an opinion and should probably be subject to compulsory euthanasia, and so on and on and on)

It's astonishing that the 48% are trying to divide and insult the 52%, and to insist that we are doomed. Do people really think this is a way to deal with people with different opinions? I know it has been tried in the past - clearly quite a lot of people object, for instance, to mass immigration from Eastern Europe (for which public consent would not have been given, hence it was never sought), and the rhetoric is always much the same - "oh look, this person who objects is a racist, game over 'we win'". This 'you are a racist' device has been successfully employed for years, but it turns out, in reality, that it never convinced - the majority of the country, when directly asked, said 'No' to the EU and to globalism. Yet apparently the Remain camp still wants to continue with this tactic, even though it has clearly failed. No need to engage with people's concerns, when you can just pull a Gordon Brown and say 'bigoted woman', and move swiftly onward.

What planet are Remain living on, when their narrative is rejected by the biggest popular mandate in living memory, and yet they still think it will pay off to push it, but now with an added side of 'how very dare you, you racist inbred half-wit'? Clearly this totalitarian illiberal liberalism is a very powerful force in Western society, but we have rejected it by a clear majority, despite Remain employing every slander it could think of prior to the referendum (if you vote Leave, you are complicit in murder, and all the rest).

How long will this go on? For how long can Remain continue to deny reality, that they are on the wrong side of history? Will they try to add 'an uneducated Leave voter is only worth 3/5 of a degree-educated Remain voter' to their existing 'a 70 year old Leave voter is only worth 1/3 of a 20-year-old Remain voter' arsenal of denial?

OP posts:
HopeArden · 29/06/2016 20:28

Unescorted 52% of the people who could be bothered to vote chose to leave. In case you missed it earlier, the 28 who didn't bother were willing to accept the outcome whichever way it went. So what they might have done, had they been arsed to go out and vote is of no importance because they weren't sufficiently concerned about either result to actually express an opinion.

RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs · 29/06/2016 20:29

I actually think it would have been worse had the vote gone the other way.

the press are of course feeding on all this.,

SnowBells · 29/06/2016 20:29

RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs

When firms advertise products to us, and they sprout ridiculous lies, they're in trouble. The firm can be sued to the nth degree, because they are misselling a product to customers.

See, even our legal system is aware that the general population needs to be protected.

But here comes BoJo, Dove and unpopular cousin Nigel. They sprout ludicrous lies, and when you read enough comments on here... some people actually believed what they said!!! For example, that we have no say on EU laws (that's laughable actually). And despite them misselling "Leave", we're not meant to push for a factory recall. We can't even sue those stupid bastards. We're just meant to sit here and take it.

TrixieBernadette · 29/06/2016 20:29

You know what, I don't believe all leavers are racist. But a chunk of them are. And right now racial hatred is on the up. I have seen in in text over the years, but since Friday I have seen it in person, and all over local groups. It's like this vote has given them some fucking freedom to chant "go home". I'm in a 65% leave area. Those vocal saying leave are now those vocalising the race hate speech. So those people (and there's fucking hundreds it seems) are racist.

And starting a sentance with "I'm not racist but..." "They need to work/go home/speak English/crimes on the up" etc does not exonerate them from their racist speech.

I am really getting fed up with being lumped in a category myself tbh. As a sore loser, as a judgemental bitch, as a sheep, as a British hater.

All this referendum seems to have done is a. Divide the country and b. Show how dire some people are

ricketytickety · 29/06/2016 20:30

There is a lot of agreeance on this thread, despite us having different views on the vote and whether racism is on the rise. Most of us agree it's disgusting.

InShockReally · 29/06/2016 20:32

The thing is, I think that if you're a "leaver" and are delighted with yourself and the new world order right now, you should possibly disengage from this stuff for a while.

There was always going to be backlash, it was inevitable, and telling people to get over it all just makes them feel even more fucked off. It's especially divisive to keep starting threads like this.

The only thing I can think is it must be showing how tenuous you must think your position is. No confident "winner" would need to endlessly start "why won't losers shut up" threads, so it makes me think that there are some "Leavers" who just like a good fight.

Otherwise why not go away and leave the "hysterical vile remainers" to work things out over time on our own? If you're convinced it's all going to be fine and there won't be any problems in your harmonious post-Brexit future, why quarrel here and now?

Just shrug and go have a drink somewhere.

Oibeer · 29/06/2016 20:32

May I ask a question as a foreigner please? Shoot me down if it's naive or totally irrelevant.

It seems that there were many people who didn't really know what they voted for when voting OUT, which is strange as information was provided and a basic grasp of European history should make it clear that a union enables us to trade, exchange knowledge and keep peace between the countries.

IMO the way Brexiters have argued their points have consistently come across as ignorant and uneducated or even xenophobic,here, on FB and RL.
The political campaigns OUT and IN have been a disgrace and now there is infighting within the parties and there doesn't seem anyone there who has great leadership skills as well as a good head on his or her shoulders.

I was wondering if the school system in the England might be to blame for some of this mess and incompetence. In my country hardly anyone goes to private school although we do have a grammar school system. Here, it seems people either go to private or public school and become the elite whether they are actually talented or not they have access to the 'old man's network' to elevate them to professional or political heights, or they go to excellent state schools which are usually in the more well off areas and again not accessible for all in an equal way.

Is a lack of consistent high-quality education for all including people from lower socio economic backgrounds to blame for some of these inefficiencies and the total mess this beautiful country is in?
Thanks.

mupperoon · 29/06/2016 20:33

Absolutely I agree that free speech has consequences ricketytickety but it is nevertheless a cornerstone of our much vaunted freedom. All I am saying is that no platforming can be abused.

Thefuturecouldbebright · 29/06/2016 20:33

Thank you rain a classic example is my father, who was staunchly pro remain the first time around, but having worked alongside these 'unelected' Eurocrats, has seen the waste and corruption within first hand. He has also witnessed the lies over the years and understands the prosperity of britain before the EU. The above has swung him sharply to pro leave and whilst I have researched for myself and made my own decision, I highly respect and value his opinion and right to a say on behalf of myself and my children based on an insight which I do not have.

tilder · 29/06/2016 20:35

I don't think everyone who voted Brexit is racist. But there is certainly a racist element. Who have been given a voice and now feel that their behaviour is acceptable. This has been stoked by the leave campaign and yes I blame them. I blame ukip for encouraging the rise of the right over the last few years too.

I appreciate that a majority of those who voted did so for Brexit. I also appreciate that this was influenced by false information (£350 million a week for the NHS, stay in the market but have no free movement). It's hard to swallow a result built on lies.

I also want the concerns and values of the 48% who voted to stay to be included. It wasn't a huge majority and for our country to work we need to be included in our future too.

I really don't understand why questioning the result is undemocratic while trying to stop debate is ok.

I guess finally it's the gibbering from all politicians post Brexit. No plan, no way forward. What a way to fuck a country over.

ricketytickety · 29/06/2016 20:36

Op people of ethnic minority themselves have said it's escalated.

But I agree, the media are focussing on this and whilst I think they should report on it so we all keep an eye out, they should also report on how many voters either way are still good, kind people who care about their fellow human.

Thefuturecouldbebright · 29/06/2016 20:36

Prosperity was probably not the right word. I take that back, as I think a better word would have been Autononomy.

mamamea · 29/06/2016 20:39

"I actually think it's disgusting that you are trying to deny the rise in racist incidents since Friday."

I'm pointing out that a rise in reports is not evidence of rise in incidents.

And nor are incidents, say, getting shared 200,000 times on Facebook, proof of a total increase in incidents.

Racism is a daily occurrence. There were 85 reports via a specific online system in 4 days, rather than 57 in 4 days a week earlier. Clearly the ACTUAL number of racist incidents in the UK was much higher than either number.

For example, the number of racist incidents recorded by the police averages 131 per day, over the course of a year. Clearly most incidents are NOT reported to the police, so the actual number of incidents is far higher.

You cannot deny that people are at this point in time, more likely to report racism. As I pointed out earlier, the press completely ignored a hate crime initiative 4 years ago - yet today it is international news. And I can see on social media numerous people sharing racial incidents who have never in the past done so.

So what we DO have is strong evidence to support the theory that people are now significantly more likely to REPORT racism. This does NOT tell you that the incidence of racism has increased.

It is not 'disgusting' to reject the accusation that our country has become a nation of racists overnight.

OP posts:
HPFA · 29/06/2016 20:40

OP, I don't necessarily think that the Norway option would be too bad in itself.
But what's the point of all the trauma, the possible damage to our economy, the enormous bill for all the extra civil servants and lawyers that will be needed for the negotiations just to end up with a deal that will in essentials be pretty much what we have now?
I don't hate Leavers at all, if they thought it was so important to be officially out of the EU even though we won't see any material benefit, then fair enough. But they can hardly be surprised if many of us just can't see the point.

CaptainBrickbeard · 29/06/2016 20:40

I'm not interested in writing a 'positive Leave story' because I don't think there is one. I don't think there is a positive outcome to leaving the EU and on a thread today which asks the Brexiters to name one single benefit of leaving the EU, they haven't been able to come up with any.

Why do you think, OP, that the half of the voters who don't want to go should now agree with you because you got a tiny majority and the promises of the Leave campaign crumbled immediately into dust? Why shouldn't we protest when there is no plan, no way forward, nothing to be gained, no leadership? Why do the Leavers expect us to be quiet when it was such a bitterly fought contest, such a close result and so much of the Leave rhetoric has been exposed as false? And why on earth do you imagine we are interested in helping you come up with a plan?

Sorry you have found yourself on the same side as the racists. I'm not going to pretend they aren't aligned with Leave just because it makes you uncomfortable. They wanted out and they are now telling immigrants that the Leave vote means they aren't welcome here. That has happened and is happening. You say we are on the wrong side of history, but I'm looking at who is on your side and I'm thinking I picked the right one, thanks very much.

Thefuturecouldbebright · 29/06/2016 20:41

Its a tricky one, whilst I agree that the media should report such incidents as a matter of public interest and importance. I also wonder if they themselves are feeding the problem.

HopeArden · 29/06/2016 20:42

Oibeer it is certainly a problem that the rulers of this country come from a small pool of people who all went to same schools and pass their privilege down through the generations - it has almost become their god given right to have a job in the cabinet!

ricketytickety · 29/06/2016 20:43

And moving forward....

I'm fuming that both our main political parties are farting about with leadership crisis in both. I have a horrible feeling we were asked to vote to distract us from the main problem in politics - the main split. Which is:

those who want to keep the elite, old boy's system and profits for the minority

and those who want a different system whereby wealth is shared more fairly and opportunity is there for all to succeed

That's the real split in both parties and the main problem with our 'democracy'

Thefuturecouldbebright · 29/06/2016 20:44

rickety agreed.

mupperoon · 29/06/2016 20:46

Thefuture don't you think the tendency towards nostalgia is at work here though? My father voted Leave for reasons very similar to yours by the sounds of things. But I don't have to have actually lived through stuff to take the lessons of history into account, and from talking to my father I truly don't believe he understands how much the world has changed.

Old or young, we can all make poor decisions. I assume my father was voting for himself, not "on behalf of me and my children". If the latter, I feel he made a poor choice.

ricketytickety · 29/06/2016 20:46

Frankly, I think that a lot of leave voters and remain voters believe the same thing: they want political change. They want power to come away from the elite and into the hands of the people, a fairer share of wealth.

I thnk we have a lot more in common than we are being led to believe by those in power who want to keep it in the hands of the elite.

Mooingcow · 29/06/2016 20:47

The two worst racists I know are traders in the City.

In fairness, they also hate women, disabled people and gays.

When they're drunk it's breathtakingly offensive, but I've rarely seen anyone 'call them out' on it. Just a lot of honking and backslapping.

They are two of the most vociferously 'remain' people I spoke to during the whole campaign.

ricketytickety · 29/06/2016 20:48

OP what say you on this? Do you think we have more in common than we initially thought? have we been set amongst each other? Is this why the media like to report on division more than unity amongst the populace?

Thefuturecouldbebright · 29/06/2016 20:48

Democracy was served in the referendum imho, but I think we have much to do before we achieve true democracy in general elections.

ricketytickety · 29/06/2016 20:48

set against each other