Have Boris and Jeremy been stabbed in the back? Please can we have some leaders?

[RedToothBrush]

And another thread about antics of President Boris and Comrade Jeremy and all their friends.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

Can we laugh or cry yet?

Are you still sane?

Will this insanity ever end?

JMD is worse.
He's incompetent and militant with it.

Perhaps the women can usher in a more intelligent level of politics, rather than the good ol' boy ridiculous behaviour we see now? One can hope.

Perhaps if we have decrease the massive positive discrimination in favour of men we might have more competence at the top.

JMD is seriously naughty with the sense of humour and unapologetic twinkle in his eye to go with it. Think he might even be electable on the charisma scale.

Assume Portillo is supporting Gove as his support usually kills off most political careers.

Yes, howabout, that's how JMcD comes across to me too.

Doinit NS, RD and KD aren't any more competent and are just as capable of reducing the Chamber to the playground.

Has anyone ever seen an encounter between TM and NS? I haven't but the vision I have in my head is unstoppable force meets immovable object. Seriously considering switching from the AL camp for the entertainment value.

I mean it as a general approach - unless you believe women are significantly less able than men, then the numbers tell us that there are a lot of men working at levels they have only achieved because a woman has not.

I think Nicola Sturgeon is extremely competent and by far the UK party keader who has dealt with this best.

I also think incompetent women are far less lijely to get to the top.

They are held to a higher standard.

But I still abhorr the "Mammy will come in and sort this out" approach to this.

I'm 95% sure we're getting Hilary, not Trump.

I think at this stage the only thing that can stop her is an indictment by the FBI on the whole emails fiasco, but that's very unlikely

Also, ironically Trump may be a very bad deal for the Brexit contingent. His whole stance is based on criticising globalisation and free trade, he wants to get rid of NAFTA. So I can't really imagine him rushing to conclude an FTA with Britain.

About Bradby's article, he has a point about May and Merkel being two rather non-showy, prudent politicians. They may get along.

But it has nothing to do with the fact that they both have vaginas

They might well get along.

My impression is that David Cameron is a poor negotiator.

He made a complete arse of himself over and over in Europe by misreading signals and misunderstanding his position.

I think/hope May will be an improvement. She certainly lacks his arrogance.

But I still don't think she's going to be given the chance to go back and rerun the February negotiations and get a more favourable outcome.

JMD is a IRA sympathiser. This in itself is bad, but it appears that Gove is a UDA sympathiser.

Can't stand the man. He's more militant than Corbyn. (I have my beefs with Corbyn, but I think he has his good points. JMD does not).

May and Merkel will both be tough. I think they will be straight talking though - which whilst they will be hard negotiaters effectively speak the same language and will have a good understanding of each other. Same style rather than tits.

The Mail, apparently were worried about Johnson's Dick being a political obstacle to him being an effective PM.

In OTHER developments. There was a local council by election last night:
Leatherhead North (Mole Valley) result:
LDEM: 56.6% (+27.4)
CON: 22.3% (-11.7)
UKIP: 10.3% (-7.9)
LAB: 8.9% (-5.7)
GRN: 1.8% (-2.1)

That's one HELL of a big swing...

Definitely agree on NS being highly competent. However she is in a win/win position at the moment. Even if there is no movement on EU membership for Scotland she comes away having raised Scotland's profile as an EU friendly Nation and has therefore improved our competitive advantage in relation to other parts of the UK. The next challenge is talking the talk on indyref2 while kicking it far enough down the road so that independence is merely a question of semantics and thus winnable next time round.

However the theory on women rising to the top only because they are more competent may not hold for the other 2. Leadership of Scottish Labour and Conservatives was / is a poisoned chalice. I think KD is doing very well at the moment using the PLP revolt to continue to distance herself from Westminster and pinning the blame for Brexit on RD and her Tory chums. I think RD would be wise to keep a low profile which is probably why she is supporting Stephen Crabb.

Leadership of Scottish Labour and Conservatives was / is a poisoned chalice.

I disagree. I think it is a poison chalice for Labour.

But frankly no one expects the Tories to do anything much in Scotland at the moment. When you are starting from the point RD is, the only way IS up unless you have leadership infighting, but she's got that one under control I suspect. what with being seemingly actually good

He made a complete arse of himself over and over in Europe by misreading signals and misunderstanding his position.

The Cameron deal is sounding more and more like a minor miracle the more I read about it

The Mail, apparently were worried about Johnson's Dick being a political obstacle to him being an effective PM.

Not that they're necessarily wrong here, but the fact that the Mail's concerns play in big part in determining the name of the next PM is depressing to say the least

Maybe the "Remain" debate gig was a poisoned chalice for the Tories? DC had very little to lose as he had already said he was standing down soonish and GO had no option but to support him. TM sat on the fence and has come out ahead. Might explain why anyone thought it was a good idea to put NS and RD front and centre (in the 3 on 3 debates) in the fight to persuade Eurosceptic English Conservatives. The vote in Scotland was always a foregone conclusion. JC should probably have taken this gig for Labour rather than Sadiq Khan as the London vote was also predictable and then he could have claimed credit for it.

Johnson's Dick ... That's one HELL of a big swing

I kind of glazed over for the rest of your post RedToothBrush.

there's some speculation that it is because McD knows this is his only shot at power, no-one else would give him any sort of responsibility. Thanks, Bathroom, I think . Now I'm angrier than ever.

I agree there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH that Angela Eagle would be a good labour leader. She cried on national television for fucks sake! These people need to able to handle themselves on the world political stage.

The Cameron deal is sounding more and more like a minor miracle the more I read about it

It was a bit.

But word is that the emergency brake was actually on the table and had support from some big players, so perhaps a better negotiator could have brought it home.

I can't see it being an option post-Brexit, though.

Otherwise every country in the EU will be voting to leave and then coming back to renegotiate their membership.

Proof Theresa May follows no one....

Yeah it is depressing about the Mail deciding anything, but on the other hand a PM lead by his dick is also open to blackmail and a security risk too.

All sections of the press are still obsessed with the role dicks play in politics.

The markets are having a rash of irrational exuberance and trashing the pound in response to Carney's comments on interest rates.

Don't know why the Brexiteers ever thought a Leave vote would make any difference to the behaviour or control of the elites.

But anyway, the best PM we can hope for is a pragmatist. Gove is an ideologue who believes his own ideas to be brilliant and wants to remake the country in his own image.

It wouldn't be wise to assume Merkel is popular at home. Over the years I've been agog several times at people from outside the UK telling me how lucky we are to have that great politician Cameron. The immigration issue in Germany is poison at the moment for many people and Merkel might find pulling an emergency brake (although it does not govern asylum seekers) not such a bad prospect.

The LibDems were right, we miss them now they're gone!

Don't know why the Brexiteers ever thought a Leave vote would make any difference to the behaviour or control of the elites.

:(

So true.

Interesting and thought provoking thread. Just wish I had discovered it sooner.

Corbyn wants to step down but McDonnell is urging him to hang on a while longer.

My take is this is for ideological reasons. Once JC goes the party will be moved back towards the centre which his and supporters are desperately trying to stop.

Another thing to add is why is JC consistently portrayed as a man of principal? Labour MPs who have spoken up against him have been subjected to quite horrendous vitriol on social media. Including threats to them and their families, which coming barely more than a fortnight after Jo Cox died beggars belief. However, instead of trying to distance himself from Momentum and their like JC stokes to fires by continuing to attend their events.

Also, this may well have been mentioned by JC and his supporters seem to have a distorted view of democracy. They believe that the democratic view of party members should be upheld and that therefore JC shouldn't quit. However, Momentum calling for dissenting MPs to be subject to mandatory re-selection seems to be ignoring the democratic view of the wider election.

Andrea Leadsom
In the end I felt it was better to put my own name forward, because you do need a choice of candidates and it seemed to me that we might end up with only one candidate who had actually supported the Leave campaign.

Leadsom apparently was wavering on Wednesday night and managed to launch a bid, in hour after Gove announcing in an act of treachery and BEFORE Johnson withdrew.

Is that a whiff of something rotten I'm sniffing?

Stabby, stabby.