Have Boris and Jeremy been stabbed in the back? Please can we have some leaders?

[RedToothBrush]

And another thread about antics of President Boris and Comrade Jeremy and all their friends.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

Can we laugh or cry yet?

Are you still sane?

Will this insanity ever end?

Jeremy Corbyn should stay on and "stick in", says former SNP leader Alex Salmond.

Speaking on his LBC phone-in, the former Scottish first minister said Mr Corbyn had a shown a "consistency of approach and policy", and called the MPs resigning from his front bench "non-entities nobody's ever heard of".

But he said he did think there was a possibility of "parliamentary fracturing" if Mr Corbyn stayed on, with "disgruntled right-wingers" leaving to form their own group.

He also said he believed there was "some truth" to the suggestion that the move against Mr Corbyn is linked to the publication of the long-awaited Chilcot report into the 2003 Iraq invasion next week.

Alex Salmond would bloody say that! He wants Labour to crumble so SNP can be the opposition party.

Yes, I suspect he has an ulterior motive.

I was half joking calling him Comrade Jeremy in the thread title.

As for Sarah Vine and Michael Gove.
I thought that's what he was after - the chancellor's job.

What I now wonder is what is the purpose of leaking that email. If it was between Mr and Mrs Gove, its for their advantage. But for what purpose?

To destroy Johnson's chances?
To put even more pressure on him for No11?
To start threatening to go for No10 himself?
To make Johnson look like the good guy and Gove the bad guy in order to take the heat off Johnson? (Remember we are currently Project Make Boris Smell of Roses)

Hmmmmm

The sad thing about Corbyn is that never wanted any of this. He was only ever supposed to open up the debate during the last leadership election, and then he won by that stonking percentage and had to try and rise to the challenge despite massive PLP resistance from day one. A man less greedy for power you couldn't find.

I don't think he was ever given a proper chance either.

Not sure if this is supportive or not at this point:

Ken Livingstone says Jeremy Corbyn has been an inclusive Labour leader and should stay in post.

"He reached out to all these old Blairites, he gave them jobs in his shadow cabinet" and allowed a free vote on bombing Syria, the ex-London mayor tells BBC News.

It is not the Labour leader's fault that the UK voted to leave the EU, Mr Livingstone insists: "More Labour voters voted to stay in than any other group."

After the prime minister called on the Labour leader to quit in Parliament earlier, Mr Livingstone - who was suspended by his party in April following comment he made about Hitler and Zionism - says: "If you hear David Cameron calling for Jeremy Corbyn to resign, that's a very good reason for him staying."

And he thinks people would be "appalled" if someone who had won the support of nearly 60% of Labour members was forced out. If MPs don't like it "they should consider their own position", he says.

We need a Remain party - please! Nicola S can lead.

Remain / Leave split by party:

CON: 42% / 58%
LAB: 63% / 37%
LIB: 70% / 30%
UKIP: 4% / 96%
GREEN: 75% / 25%
SNP: 64% / 36%

Its then been pointed out the NS is a hero, but JC is a villain...

4% of UKIP wanted to Remain.

Well, that makes sense!

It really does feel like there's a piece of the puzzle missing with all this Corbyn stuff. It's conveniently taking the spotlight away from the lies and manipulation of Leave and of DC abandoning his post.

All those people harping on about democracy and then Corbyn being under so much pressure to leave from MPs when he was voted in by the people.

BREAKINGTom Watson 'will not challenge Corbyn'

Laura Kuenssberg
BBC political editor
Posted at
17:48
The deputy leader of the Labour Party, Tom Watson, has told the BBC that he will not challenge Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour Party.

However he said that he's been trying to negotiate Jeremy Corbyn's departure.

Mr Watson echoed the words of the Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale, and said that Mr Corbyn can't lead the party like this.

He said he expects there to be a leadership election. And he said the party is facing an existential crisis and is in peril.

I didn't think Watson would stand, he prefers manipulating behind the scenes to being a leader.

Four it really does seem like something is missing. If you look at the percentages, he did just marginally better with Labour than NS did with SNP for Remain. Yet he is being savaged by his own MPs and she is being praised. DC on the other hand did abysmal in comparison and he's being asked to come back.

I hope while Tom Watson is trying to do damage limitation he doesn't forget to apologise for that tweet showing him at silent disco. Some things you can't unsee.

giraffe I got that impression too. Sort of "the power behind the throne" kind of thing.

I didn't think Watson would stand, he prefers manipulating behind the scenes to being a leader.

I am certain you are right.

I am beginning to wonder if the Labour party will split, possibly in conjunction with some kind of SDP-style merger with the Libdems. I've been following the facebook feed of my local Labour party this afternoon and there's practically a civil war breaking out. Someone has just slagged off 'Corbyn supporters' on the basis that they're new joiners who probably won't pull their weight canvassing at a general election, while the longstanding members will have to do all the heavy lifting of campaigning for a potential PM they don't believe in. Someone else has just said, well, it might help you to form a cohesive campaign if 9 months on you weren't still describing members as 'Corbyn supporters' and 'non-Corbyn supporters'.

Well, quite.

TW seems to think JM is the puppet master.

Thanks Red (your posts are always informative!). Broadly, leaving the EU is a right wing thing (only Con and Ukip have a majority in favour: although 4% of Ukip wanting to stay is a bit whacko). As a fan of liberal muddle, and restraining any party from full blooded whatever through fragile majorities, the electoral cycle and all the brakes which our system applies (not always I accept) it looks like Lab or SNP are the best ...

On JC: I haven't followed him closely, but what I have seen of his utterances he seems sensible and consistent. BUT, and it is a big but, he has no charisma, and some of his apparent beliefs are difficult to understand in the context of running a government in a messy world. I cannot imagine him as holding any ministerial post whatsoever. He simply hasn't got the flexibility and pragmatism to run a department, let alone the country. (IMO you can only do this if you have both, accepting that sometimes principles must end: you can go too far and have no principles, a la Boris, but that doesn't attract me although it works for many others.)

So he should go. Labour will never win power with him in charge, nor (from his performance thus far) be an effective opposition, holding the government to account. Cameron's extraordinary call for JC to 'go' seems to recognise that government works best if probed and tested, and JC simply doesn't do this effectively.

However, his refusal to resign is in accordance with his principles and the Labour constitution, as I understand both. The party as a whole elected him, and only the party as a whole can remove him. (I might add that his inability or refusal to recognise that he should go is another illustration of the lack of pragmatic flexibility essential for good governance.)

Gove/Vine: the Sky disclosed email reveals that they have Boris's number: if it isn't crystal clear and written in blood, Boris will wriggle out of it - he is totally untrustworthy. I suspect that aspect of Boris is why Dacre/Murdoch mistrust Boris. He isn't reliable right wing, and will play left wing if he sees a personal advantage. It's all about Boris to Boris, and there are no other principles.

So Sarah Vine is angling to get Gove a position as chancellor, yet she is telling us all that he didn't think the prime minister would resign, didn't have any plan whatsoever to win and, it appears, can't stand up for himself at work and needs his wife to threaten Boris???

Thanks for the new thread

JM?

I agree, we need a remain party. Is there one?

Labour til I die (til now) never ever thought about voting any other way before. Feel utterly let down by JC

Totally not a Blairite as I detest the man and quit the party the day they invaded Iraq - remember calling HO to cancel and they tried to tell me the 'weapons of mass destruction crap'

Returned last year after Milliband awfulness but not a supporter of Corbyn. He is out of touch with the nation. We need strong selfLESS leadership. Taking the party to the brink on principle shows me he is not actually principled at all. He is as with all the others is thinking of number 1. To the point he is prepared to split the party. I have to keep saying one person is not a party

Am booking my conference ticket this week!