Have Boris and Jeremy been stabbed in the back? Please can we have some leaders?

[RedToothBrush]

And another thread about antics of President Boris and Comrade Jeremy and all their friends.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

Can we laugh or cry yet?

Are you still sane?

Will this insanity ever end?

That is fascinating Hamish. Thanks for posting that link. Gove has been playing Boris all along.
What is so sad is how our country has been so badly damaged by egos and game playing.

Just googled Dan Jarvis.

He reminds me a bit of Ralph Fiennes. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

That sounds like a hopeful and positive way to go forward.
Does anyone know how strong Merkel is within her own country? They have a GE planned for autumn next year. Is she likely to be staying in?

As if being a bit like Ralph Fiennes could ever be a bad thing!

Corbyn wants to step down but McDonnell is urging him to hang on a while longer.

Mitzy Do we know why? Is it because of Chilcot? Because it better bloody well not be. Anyone in the labour party could call Tony Blair to account or apologise. It doesn't need to JC. If he is so principled it wouldn't matter to him. I had dozens of phone calls in the run up to the referedum from the LP and union. I have not had a single one since. If I do, I will be giving it to them straight.

God that imagined cosy conversation between two women is so cringey.

And no, Tom, it really does not make you sound like a feminist.

The idea that this will all go away if only two women can have a little chat is so facile I'm amazed a self-respecting journalist could write it.

*referendum. Sorry. I'm trying to watch QT while typing.

As if being a bit like Ralph Fiennes could ever be a bad thing!

Being a bit like Ralph Fiennes could be being Joseph Fiennes.

Similar, but not hot or good at acting.

That telegraph article is very interesting and sounds very very plausible.

I BELIEVE Merkel is likely to hang on next year, but you can't be sure of that.

I think there are a lot of assumptions about Hilary here too. I think that Trump is a bigger threat than people realise.

I also think that after Brexit, Europe are reconsidering this and this is actually playing a part in why decisions are being delayed until the end of the year.

If Trump gets elected it will send shock waves, that will have a huge impact on 'the establishment' (think banks).

Given the deadlock and limbo we are currently in, would you be making big decisions with that hanging over you if you had to? Especially when it suddenly becomes apparent that the UK had no plan and loads of voters have no idea what they voted for, and loads suddenly regretted it when it become apparent what Brexit really meant. You'd want to delay it until after the election and THEN start making decisions.....

Dan Jarvis was a great hope at the last leader election. He didn't stand due to personal circumstances, which I completely respect. Although I did shed a few tears. I really hope things have changed for him and he will go for it. He would get my vote.

This is a really interesting piece from a week or three ago (whenever that was) that gave me a new perspective on the Trump phenomenon and tbh made me worry less about the prospect of him actually winning. (Though after the week we've had in the UK, all bets are off obviously...)

www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jun/17/could-he-actually-win-dave-eggers-donald-trump-rally-presidential-campaign

Tom Bradby is not showing off his intellect in this piece if he has any?

I agree it will be a woman but not sure which one yet. If it is TM agree CG will be in charge of Brexit negotiations. TM is and always was pro Brexit as I am pretty sure JC is - both of them want reform which will never happen. The EU are happy to be rid of us - one foot in and one foot out has always made it impossible for the rest of the EU to move to a proper democratic federal EU, which they can now do. Delaying things helps no-one - political and economic limbo cannot achieve much. The UK is already in the position of being in but with no influence. DC's "deal" was instantly and unilaterally withdrawn.

Hilary is far from considered and conciliatory in her international outlook. She may talk the talk but in action is extremely hawkish for a democrat. I think I would prefer Donald as his isolationism at least limits the tendency towards ill informed self-interested meddling.

I can't see any way, particularly given how things have proceeded so far, to imagine they are going to be happy to kick this can down the road for 18 months.

6 to 8 months tops.

They want this sorted before the elections.

The UK is already in the position of being in but with no influence. DC's "deal" was instantly and unilaterally withdrawn.

In fairness, it was clearly stated upfront that the February deal was automatically null in the event of a Leave result. It's one reason DC was so mad to call the referendum. He should have grabbed the deal with both hands imo.

On the positive side, it's a real possibility we might see 3 women in charge of the US, UK and Germany.

It would be very interesting to see IF politics changes as a result of that.

Am now pondering May, Merkel and Clinton all having a civil chat, sorting the problems of the world and then agreeing to a slumber party watching Dirty Dancing

I've just seen the Eagle woman on tv, she couldn't possibly be better than Corbyn or even me. I would come across better than that on tv

Every time I have seen her on TV, she's always been on the point of bursting into tears. Not a good image for a politician. Not voting for Labour myself, it still has an image of being older working class male dominated. That's something that a lot of women voters just can't identify with.

Re Brexit, on Newsnight it was reported that all the Tory leadership candidates had said that Brexit would happen, so there is no apparent going back on that. But, does this make the 48% who didn't want it disappear? The negotiations are going to be in two parts, terms of exit, and then negotiating new terms of trade, so we could be in for a long haul. So what if the exit terms are not favourable? Are the Remain camp really going to roll over and say 'whatever'?

Newsnight highlighted how the Tory party was officially wholly eurosceptic. Will all Tories be happy to go along with this, or would some defect elsewhere? (Where though?)

I don't see Eagle as a leader. Clearly a competent MP but leader of the party, electable as PM? No.

I agree with you alis though the truth is I know nothing at all about her which makes me reflect on how much my judgement of politicians' capabilities is manipulated by the media. I am putty in the hands of the tv and the papers. I also rely overmuch on what a person wears or says in their 20 second tv soundbite.
Everyso often DD or DS or a friend will go to a meeting and feedback first hand and when there are manifestos to read we do so and discuss earnestly. Otherwise it is the person who most appears to want to reduce social inequalities who gets my support

We thought Eagle seemed like a teacher on the news last night.Jeremy has been a naughty boy and needs to own up and have a good think about what he's done.

Am now pondering May, Merkel and Clinton all having a civil chat, sorting the problems of the world and then agreeing to a slumber party watching Dirty Dancing

That is about the level of Tom Bradby's piece.

"How could anything bad happen in a room with so many boobs?"

doin
Some numpty in TMs press conference yesterday said that there seemed to be strong similarities between her and Angela, what did she think? I really really really wanted her to say they both had vaginas. It's fucking ridiculous. I notice no one says that Stephen Crabb is like Juncker, for example. Grrrrr.

Mind you it will be epic if we get more women leaders.

Yes, getting women leaders is long overdue.

But I can't bear the sense that the women will come in with their vaginas and sort out the mess made by the silly men.

Like a bunch of cross mammies. Who will retreat to their proper place being invisible on the sidelines once they've done the tidying.

I was reading that Tom Bradby nonsense to DH and it struck afresh me how ridiculous it is.

Those arguments he says "serious women" will make and hear are pretty much exactly what David Cameron went over with in February.

Merkel was apparently the person who put an end to the emergency brake idea. France and Italy had more sympathy for it.

So now this serious woman is going to reverse her position, at a far more diplomatically sensitive time, with an election coming up, just because a vagina bearer asks her??

HeMan - you asked why McDonnell is so keen for Corbyn to stay on, there's some speculation that it is because McD knows this is his only shot at power, no-one else would give him any sort of responsibility.

As far as Gove is concerned, I think Portillo said on This Week that May hates him, so if she gets in I can't see him getting any sort of major job. I can see her sticking him in the Scottish Office, or something, just to keep him occupied.

Where Angela Eagle is concerned, is it not just a case of her being one of the few front-benchers anyone would recognise? She got a bit of attention with her PMQ appearances, so at least there was a face to go with a name.

I like John McDonnell a lot.

Is he considered incompetent?