Have Boris and Jeremy been stabbed in the back? Please can we have some leaders?

[RedToothBrush]

And another thread about antics of President Boris and Comrade Jeremy and all their friends.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

Can we laugh or cry yet?

Are you still sane?

Will this insanity ever end?

Nicky Morgan just tweeted "Looking forward to the third Shadow S of S for Education to take up post this week - otherwise I'll be asking questions to myself on Monday"

She's got a point.

I'm irritated by the idea that tearing the Labour party apart rather than resign is the action of a "principled man".

He must have an ego the size of a planet to ignore the wishes of so many MPs in favour of the labour party members.

Those MPs represent millions of people.

X post, Showme.

Agreed on JC

Someone has just slagged off 'Corbyn supporters' on the basis that they're new joiners who probably won't pull their weight canvassing at a general election, while the longstanding members will have to do all the heavy lifting of campaigning for a potential PM they don't believe in. Someone else has just said, well, it might help you to form a cohesive campaign if 9 months on you weren't still describing members as 'Corbyn supporters' and 'non-Corbyn supporters'.

The Labour Party needs to realise they need both.

Campaigning IS NOT just done door to door now (in case anyone on MN hadn't realised this yet ...) Social media has a massive part to play in sharing ideas.

FWIW, I don't think the JC can win an election. I however, don't necessarily think that's a bad thing for the party and I don't necessary think that's bad for UK politics and the country as a whole.

Also I don't necessarily think that exclude Labour from the next government. I think the next general election will be messy.

Place marking- enjoyed the previous two threads although have nothing useful to add!

Who was the Sarah Vine email meant to be sent to?

Vine/Gove email reported first by Sky. Not remotely suspicious eh that the experienced journo wife would accidentally leak email naming Murdoch and Dacre and Sky are happy to run with it. True, it's in keeping with current "farce" situation but makes me wonder if Gove actually considering running himself and they want it out there that Johnson untrustworthy and hasn't got his support sewn up

Paul Dacre?

Glamour DoinIt Agreed

Also JC is playing to his faithful masses (oh JC ......initials will he soon feed us all on 5 fishes and turn water into wine. I think with the rising food prices we will need it and we defiantly need the booze)

Anyway the faithful masses of 100,000+ are irrelevant in an election. He needs to think about the millions he is turning against he party. But 'principled' men with egos the size of Saturn can't possibly think of that.

I can not think what is going through his brain. Party leaders of all sides have won proper elections....like when everyone votes...but they still stand down with honour. Selfish selfish man. Just as Boris will be seen as the person that destroyed the UK. JC will possibly be seen as the one that destroyed the Labour Party. For what?

If some Labour MPs break away to join a centrist Remain party with Farron.... Where do they stand constitutionally, i.e. Do they have to have a bye election for their seat under their new banner?
I think a lot of those who've resigned must now be looking nervously at options, I think members will give them a kicking at the next voting opportunity

.

Obi No they don't have to have a bye election - oddly

ShowMe
How do we know he can't appeal to the electorate? Other than people saying it, what's the evidence?
charisma gets mentioned - I totally see that he's a Spitting Image dream, I I do - but I wonder if "slick" is what people are after nowadays, post Blair, Cameron and Clegg? Corbyn has never been given a chance by media and yet still carried by elections and mayoral elections and decent labour vote for remain.
I can also argue it other way of course, failure to do more in each of those examples is a sign of his failure.
But "he doesn't appeal to the electorate" keeps getting repeated like a mantra despite people on this thread saying, shame I like him and may have voted for him, but people keep saying he can't appeal to electorate!
But I I were a Labour Party member I'd be a bit cheesed off with people telling me I'll never vote for him, when I did! And when he got such a large mandate from party members.

If it's Johnson v Corbyn then it's an non-integrity/integrity Head to head.
Yes, I think Johnson will have it sewn up as he has the media, but no replacement Labour candidate if going to get the media either, that's pipe dream by PLP that there's some mysterious challenger we don't yet know of who the media/Westminster will adore...

I'm assuming JM = John MacDonnell

noblegiraffe
Emails weird eh, I'm assuming supoosed to be to Gove close advisor given she refers to Gove by name (even tho media reporting email is to him)

Felascloak Sorry didn't see first question, yes JohnMc and Tom Watson fairly direct in saying JM is the one advising JC to stay
If you've not seen the interview on BBC, he apologises to the public for the mess at Westminster, says he's spent days trying to bring people together but JC would talk to him about leaving

Lurking as a Glaswegian I have a part share in the City Council's Highland Cattle Herd. I am always confidently reassured that NS is in charge of Nessie and the Unicorns

Puzzled as to why Scottish Labour is that bothered about the fate of JC. KD laid the groundwork for moving to a position of accepting a Federal settlement in her speech yesterday and the Scottish Party is already pretty much autonomous. The ex shadow Scottish Secretary and only Scottish Labour MP is very far from reflecting the views of the Scottish Party. If JC survives I advise him to co-opt an SNP shadow Scottish secretary.

I don't think Tim Farron is proposing a merger but more a reverse takeover.

I am with the conspiracy theorists on the Gove memo.

I think the PLP behaviour is pretty indefensible and has been ever since JC was elected from a democratic standpoint. It is also pretty off putting to this floating voter.

Labour spent years and years in opposition blaming the media. It is again being trotted out by corbyn supporters. If you can't deal with the right wing media bias then you cannot lead the Labour party into power.

He's also a Londoner and there's a London/rest of UK split.

Wikipedia says he is from Wiltshire and went to school in Shropshire?

Interesting Twitter feed in economic aspect, also listing some interesting links: @b_judah

(Going back to catch up)

He talks about the passporting issue mentioned on thread II

Although I agree that while he might not represent Londoners as a group, there are enough people in London that you can surround yourself with a pretty big bubble of people who think the same way.

Tam Dalyell: MPs should have 'courage' to overrule Brexit vote

BBC Newsnight
Posted at

Members of Parliament should say: "Parliament is sovereign... They should have some guts and less cowardice."

That's the view of Scottish Labour Party politician Tam Dalyell. He told BBC Newsnight he was "furious" at the Brexit vote. MPs should defy the EU referendum result and vote against invoking Article 50 and withdrawal from the EU, he argues.

"People did not understand that they were voting for the end of the single market on which many of their jobs will depend. They didn’t understand about immigration and how little could be done about immigration.

"Is this mantra of ‘the will of the people’ taking into account the tumbling pound?" he asked.

"The imagination boggles," he said, at the prospect of a border between Scotland and England.

Watch David Grossman's interview with Tam Dalyell on BBC Newsnight tonight at 22:30 on BBC Two

FYI.