Has Boris been outmanoevered? Will someone please tell me who is in charge?

[RedToothBrush]

Thread two from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1

Yvette Cooper, the Labour MP, says that during PMQs Cameron could not guarantee that EU nationals here now would be able to stay. She says that in the light to the abuse EU nationals are getting, and the fact that people are telling them they will have to go home, the Commons should pass legislation now guaranteeing that they will be able to stay.

^Cameron says he was just trying to set out the position. He says that here have been assurances that EU nationals would be able to stay, but that the final decision will have to be taken by his successor.
Cameron rejects Yvette Cooper’s call for emergency legislation guaranteeing EU nationals will be able to stay in UK.^

Now you aren't just a bargaining chip, you are a Tory leadership ping pong ball.

Just back to OP on this thread.... The bits I've seen of DC today seemed a clearer "Here you go Leave, you clear this up" than DC previous speeches.
He said they up to them to make good on spending promises to Wales.
He effectively crapped on Johnson news article where Johnson unilaterally claimed rights would be protected...

Mrs Gove article they're an absolute joke. It frightens me how many chancers and bloggers are getting into powerful positions

I'm liking how Silvio Borisconi is catching on....

None of it surprising.
He is the one who introduced permanent residence card for EU nationals after all.
And he is also the one who has started to send non EU immigrants back just inApril. Married, children none of that mattered.

So why would anyone think he would be more gentle fur EU citizens?
We are not just a bargaining tool. He doesn't care at all about 'immigrants' wherever they are coming from, unless you are a doctor or a nurse and he then needs you.

Well, he's clearly telling their governments this.

Do you mean he is giving the other EU leaders a clear message that they have to do us a better deal on free movement? I don't think so, although I agree the BBC is reporting it as such.

In fact, DC is very clear about the fact that this is not possible. They have said it clearly. He completely accepts that message. He recognises that the UK has to accept that too in order to have the best deal on access to the single market (i.e. continued membership) but at the same time realises the UK is unlikely to accept that, wherein lies the key challenge of post-Brexit negotiations. There was, is, and never will be any wiggle room on that. What has actually been said is not at all how it is being reported. The reporting of it is setting the EU up for more UK public disapproval by acting as though discussions are ongoing when they are not. The EU will subsequently be portrayed as having flounced away from the table, when they have not. In fact, there is no table.

And he won't care about Brits in the EU
They are far away and a lot of them can't vote anyway...

Lord Puttnam weighing in on "serial liar" Johnson and criticises BBC for not taking him to task on it....

www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-06-29/lord-puttnam-attacks-bbc-for-criminal-act-of-failing-to-take-idiot-boris-johnson-to-task-for-contradictory-eu-message

Yes, he is and he's using it as a bargaining chip.

I don't like the morality, but if it gets the UK a better deal it will be better for these EU nationals as well. I suppose that why the Polish PM is more flexible than other EU politicians.

Let's be pragmatic.

Blimey, have just come back to PMQs. Depressing how empty the House is at this point.

Maybe they are all in their constituencies, working their socks off.

not

Very much Obi

We have a PM, who is taking responsibility by saying I don't have the power to do anything. Its up to my successor.

We have an opposition leader who after failing to find a spine was punished by being kneecapped, bullied and stabbed in the back by his own MPs and still won't quit. Whilst we have the trade unions and social media getting behind the opposition leader.

Meanwhile Johnson, is either getting signatures for his own little petition or pretending to be President and making lots of promises he has no ability to fulfil.

Total paralysis.

At this rate the griming monster insulting everyone we need to keep sweet and negotiate with, is starting to look like a good candidate for breaking the deadlock one way or another....

I don't like the morality, but if it gets the UK a better deal it will be better for these EU nationals as well. I suppose that why the Polish PM is more flexible than other EU politicians.

Once again, there IS no 'better deal'. The UK already had a way better deal (if by better you mean more benefits and fewer obligations) than any other member country and we threw it back in their face. I would love it to be true, but it isn't. As an option, this is bollocks peddled by Boris. I can't believe anyone fell for it before the referendum, never mind after. In case you haven't heard, the Leave campaign was built on lies.

I know.
I meant better than just being thrown out now, salvaging something out this mess.

I know the deal now won't be any better than before, no questions about that, leaving was a madness.

UK access to the EU's single market requires freedom of movement, European Council President Donald Tusk says

BBC breaking news.

(I'm not quite sure why its breaking news. I seem to have heard this said about 100times already since Friday).

They should re-name it Breaking The Same Bloody News To The Same Bloody Idiots In The Hope It Will Sink In.

I have been lurking and think this thread is brilliant! Please continue it!

Agree MrsLupo
Maybe it's time to get our acts together and ask the real question
Do we want a free trade agreement or do we want to go for it alone?
once that question us answered, it will be much easier to move forward.

Going on about 'negociating' or 'imposing' to the EU a restriction on EU migrants only serve to pour oil on the fire tbh

Well, we can have the same deal as before (sans February negotiations) just by not invoking Article 50. I think there is still hope on this front, you know, although like so many people I can hardly sit still meantime.

I'm sorry if I was intemperate. I think maybe I misunderstood your point, Chardonnay.

I meant better than just being thrown out now, salvaging something out this mess.

I know the deal now won't be any better than before, no questions about that, leaving was a madness.

Meanwhile Millionaire Aaron Banks, leader of the Leave.Eu campaign (and who was formally married to someone who has been accused of being the best KGB agent in the last 30 years) and who has publically stated that he would like the UK to go bankrupt and would love to screw over all politicians (whilst he has money stashed away somewhere) is laughing his head off at the current meltdown.

But yeah. He's for the people.

He's so moronic he spells his name 'Arron'.

His twitter feed is charming. Well done Leave. He is just the sort of cunt who will flourish in this dystopian Britain.

Do we want a free trade agreement or do we want to go for it alone?

I am afraid - and what a lot of Leavers don't seem are too thick to realise - is what we may or may not want doesn't really come into it. Whereas what we need does.

The only thing about the UK that is an island is the geography. Everything else requires some level of interaction with the world. And always has. As the prehistoric wine vessels from Spain found in Cornwall (oh, the irony) prove.

I think I just put my point badly.

Anybody else read the report that suggests France is pushing a "No passport for the City but reduced immigration" deal?

I just thought I'd put that out there, now. I am genuinely worried that the short-term, self-interest of Boris Johnson and Murdoch might try and present that as a possible, positive compromise to a public absolutely stirred up on the immigration thing.

A week ago, I would have thought acceptance of such a thing was hilarious and utterly impossible. Now? I just don't know. There seems to be no actual bottom to the consciencelessness of Johnson, the supineness of the media, and the gullibility of many of the public.

... and yes, I do realise this wouldn't be against Murdoch's interests, long or short-term. And I also realise that Murdoch media is far from supine.

You don't need to convince me LH
But clearly half of the population doesn't think that.