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Brexit

Has Boris been outmanoevered? Will someone please tell me who is in charge?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/06/2016 21:17

Thread two from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1

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8
PlatoTheGreat · 29/06/2016 11:30

Laws that clearly haven't been followed though....

The U.K. Has been very laid back and naive there. A lot of the comments during the campaign would create a strom in other countries and be treated for what they were - invitation to hatred.
So where was the Electoral Commision and whoever is suposed to deal with any racist comments paste red all over the place (as in out of an electoral campaign)?

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2016 11:46

They deflected it effectively, by saying that it would show bias of the electoral commission if they intervened and that it was deliberately trying to dismiss the 'legitimate' concerns of people.

The campaign strategy had that covered, and the fact the Remain campaign did use the power of the government at times didn't help this cause. It made the Electoral Commission have something of a conflict of interests going on.

Leave were always one step ahead. Early invoking of Godwin by Leave against Remain was something of a masterstroke.

Then there is always the question of how independent is an independent body....

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RedToothBrush · 29/06/2016 11:51

PMQ Time is Noon on Wednesdays isn't it?

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MitzyLeFrouf · 29/06/2016 11:56

Pat Glass has now resigned after two days as shadow education secretary saying the situation is 'untenable'.

PlatoTheGreat · 29/06/2016 12:01

Found on FB. Thought it was avery nice summary of the situation.

So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.

Clear?

TheBathroomSink · 29/06/2016 12:01

Presumably these new Shadow Cabinet people were the ones who supported Corbyn, and not part of the plot to get rid of him? How's he going to explain this then?

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:16

Ouch, PMQs getting nasty already. Cameron using a question about child poverty to urge Corbyn to "Go!"

ObiWanCannelloni · 29/06/2016 12:27

Johnson not at PMQ's? Is he not going to be bothering with that annoying democratic and transparent stuff, just give out edicts via his Telegraph column?

Cameron is amazing smug and chipper for a guy who opened the door to all of this initially... Echoing comments of others incl Ginger I am absolutely aghast Labour problems are what's getting the laughs in chamber rather than every Remain MP from any side, every Labour MP, SNP, Irish MP rising as one and asking for some accountability from Cameron and the Leave Camp

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:28

DC just hinted in an answer to Carswell that a 2nd ref may be the vehicle to choose a plan post-Brexit: "so that people may decide", NB NOT "this house".

MitzyLeFrouf · 29/06/2016 12:31

'Cameron is amazing smug and chipper for a guy who opened the door to all of this initially'

I KNOW!

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:35

Lots of MPs questioning the Leave promises made about lost EU funding. Hope this is building up to a more direct attack on the legitimacy of the Leave vote. The conventions of the HoC are such a bar to plain speaking!!

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:40

Ooh, DC acknowledges that the best access to the European market is via full membership. Then says it will be a matter for his successor to decide what sort of access to choose.

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2016 12:41

Cameron says the first thing to do is to tell them their contribution is welcomed. He says at the moment all their rights are guaranteed. We are still members of the EU. He says the leave campaigners said EU nationals would be entitled to say. But the government is not in a position to offer a guarantee now, because the negotiations have not taken place.

Cameron says government is not in a position now to guarantee that EU nationals living in the EU will be unaffected after Brexit. But he said the leave campaign did promise this.

Wow. Just wow.

If you are not a national you just became a 'bargaining chip'.

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MitzyLeFrouf · 29/06/2016 12:47

I'm a bargaining chip now.

Fab.

LurkingHusband · 29/06/2016 12:50

I'm a bargaining chip now.

It's all we ever were ....

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:51

Corbyn pressing DC for details of what sort of deal on trade/movement might be possible, and insisting on open, plain speaking debate which he says should have happened before the referendum. Also pressing for timeframe for Art. 50 and asking about possibilities for devolved administrations. Wants to know what discussions have already taken place re Scotland, NI and Gibraltar. Denounces austerity again. Wants assurances about right to remain for EU nationals.

Galdos · 29/06/2016 12:54

For all those wishing for a GE, a reminder that we are stuck with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011, which says no GE before (now) 2020. A GE can be called if (I) the FTPA is repealed; (ii) there is a no confidence vote in the Government; or (iii) 2/3rds of MPs vote for it.

The PM can't just call one as he could otherwise.

So before getting to a GE we have to go through a lot more politicking to repeal the FTPA or have 2/3rds of MPs vote, or even have a vote of no confidence - some Tory defectors needed for that, which seems improbably (even taking into account Boris's o'ervaulting ambition).

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:56

DC agrees access to single market and negotiatons around free movement v important and also likely to be difficult. Regrets Feb negotiations now null. Reiterates it's a matter for his successor. Says he has spoken to all 1st ministers and it's a UK-wide decision. Corbyn asked re suspension of fiscal rule but DC rejects that.

BBC broadcast is ending now. Bit disappointing tbh. I was hoping for anarchy but the House was strangely subdued.

Galdos · 29/06/2016 12:58

And can I add that this thread has been much more interesting and informative about the whole shebang than anything else I've read?

It would be very interesting to live another 100 years and see how this episode is treated in the history books, by when much of the dust should have settled!

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 12:58

And yes, BJ conspicuous by his absence...

RedToothBrush · 29/06/2016 12:59

Cameron has to improve net migration figures and provide British jobs for British people somehow. Hmm

I do feel that wasn't far off telling people to get your papers in order or go home.

I'm horrified by it.

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ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 29/06/2016 13:12

Blimey, listening to JC I was almost fooled to believe he actually was on the Remain side.

ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 29/06/2016 13:13

Well, he's clearly telling their governments this.

MrsLupo · 29/06/2016 13:16

Cameron has to improve net migration figures and provide British jobs for British people somehow.

Perhaps he should tackle the issue of employers who offer unskilled jobs at wages that only people from elsewhere in (and outside) the EU can consider taking. But he won't. It would mean airing all kinds of structural issues that are central to other areas of Tory policy.