To not be able to speak to my near neighbours who voted leave?

[TooMuchCoffeeMakesMeZoom]

My children's future has been put at stake. Our economy risks ruin. Our relatively -well-off neighbours in a place with nearly full employment and very low recent immigration (local care companies and NHS are desperate for staff) have voted leave. They are only around fifty.

I'm gobsmacked.

The irony is that the small business they are in is affected by the growth of China as an economic powerhouse. So why on earth do they feel that leaving the EU gives them more power? It gives them less.

I am so angry and feel so let down by my country. These people, and people like them ahem destroyed my hopes for a continued peace in Europe.

How on earth am I expected to talk to them on an equal footing, knowing what they have done through their own greed?

I think one of those may be Boston in Lincs.

I don't know if it is 60% but it feels pretty high to the people who lived there before Polish people arrived then that is a valid point.

Ignoring the fact that there are large Eastern European communities in Lincoln-a fairly quick influx-as opposed to a gentle assimilation, is bizarre and getting stuck on the actual percentage is purely academic and doesn't make things better.

It is ignoring those feelings, dismissing them as racist rednecks that was a factor in Thursday's result. Maybe they were fed up of being sneered at by the likes of Mary Beard and it is my belief that if she and others like her, had the ability to go back in time, they would cut the sneering and patronising remarks and address those concerns seriously.

However, they can't go back and now the people of Lincoln and elsewhere have shoved a giant finger right up Mary's hooter!

Here you go louisa

www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2016-06-24/eu-referendum-boston-votes-to-leave-the-eu/

From the Guardian

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/dec/11/census-boston-eastern-european-immigration

Well, there you go. I wonder how many of them voted to leave because they felt their concerns were ignored or sneered at. A fair few I would imagine.

A little more reassurance, a little less sneering, a little more kindness and a little less ignoring and the result on Thursday could have been different.

It wouldn't have taken much to address people's fears-whether they were justified or not-they were real to them. Instead arrogance and condensation were the order of the day and the retort was loud and clear: loud enough to cause a howl of frustration that went all the way to the ballot box.

The result there is astounding

Something is going on in Lincs, isn't it?

That's a very striking result.

How many people who voted Leave are struck dumb when sharing office space or schoolyards with those who wanted us to submit to a Euro Super State.

The Remainers terrify me.

They don't understand democracy - if they did they would not be trying to surrender themselves and their children to he control of the EU superstate and
importantly, they would not be attempting to overturn the stated wish of the British people,
and
they would not be trying to smear as racist, their opponents who were intelligent enough to recognise the importance of self-determination and sovereignty.

They and the mainstream media that are colluding with them in their undemocratic cause should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

You have summed things up perfectly for me Spring. Thank you!

Diana, you know shit about who goes to live in Eastern Europe. Many expats live in E Europe because they fall in love with it. Many live there because they fell in love with a person. All the British immigrants I know where I live live here because of their partners.

As for the remainder campaign addressing fears Louisa, it did. The sad truth is that people wanted a really simple answer to complex problems and so they went for it. It also seems to me a subservient response. It was easier to blame outsiders than the ruling elite.

Emily: you make Eastern Europe sound like the Capital of Romance!

You can't get a much more simple response than Mary Beard peddling the line that there were no problems in Lincolnshire. She, and others, thought if they said a problem didn't exist then it didn't and that was the end of it.

I think the Ruling Elite in the UK and Europe have now been made to listen, instead of listening when they had a chance of ameliorating the situation.

Revolutions are always started when the normal people have had enough of hearing 'let them eat cake!

SPRINGING: fantastic post.

As for the remainder campaign addressing fears Louisa, it did. The sad truth is that people wanted a really simple answer to complex problems and so they went for it. It also seems to me a subservient response. It was easier to blame outsiders than the ruling elite

You are swallowing the Government spin. I was campaigning on the streets and hearing first hand people's reasons for wanting to leave in most cases it was becasue they understood the importance of sovereignty and self-determination, often because they had close relatives who had sacrificed their lives for it or children in the Armed Forces who may be called upon to do so.

So do not try to imply that all leavers are racists. By doing so you expose the fact that you are even more out of touch than we thought.

Until you understand the reasons why people chose options you will never be able to win them over to your side - thank goodness

People were seriously telling you that they were voting Leave because their relatives had died for sovereignty 70 years ago? If so, they were pretty confused. Do they recall our reasons for declaring war? They had a lot to do with solidarity with other countries, which is more than the "Little Englanders" seem prepared to exhibit now. I also had relatives who died in that war, and I'm quite sure that they didn't die for this country to descend into poverty and subservience. They certainly didn't die for the break-up of the Union.

Springing, we are part of that so-called superstate; we have MEPs, we have a veto, we are not subservient to it. However, if we leave, because we are dependent on trade with it, we will become subservient, and we won't have any means whatsoever to influence vital decisions that impinge directly on us.

If leavers ever thought that leaving the EU would free us from having to comply with EU rules, I'm afraid they were taken in by the blatant lies of the Brexit camp.

There is nothing undemocratic about saying Parliament should not abide by the referendum result. That result is only advisory; it is Parliament which has been democratically elected to make the decision. Given that the Leave camp is rapidly backtracking on its promises, Parliament has to recognise that that small majority was obtained by outright deceit, and has to act on that.

People were seriously telling you that they were voting Leave because their relatives had died for sovereignty 70 years ago? If so, they were pretty confused.

No, they were totally right.

Do they recall our reasons for declaring war? They had a lot to do with solidarity with other countries

We went to war to save ourselves from being ruled by a German-dominated superstate and when we had mitigated that threat we made further sacrifices to free the countries under Occupation.

We declared which is more than the "Little Englanders" seem prepared to exhibit now.

We "little Englanders' are freeing ourselves from the grip of the EU before we become 'No Englanders'. You are the Little EU'rs, clinging to your fortress of 27 close neighbours and preventing free trade with the rest of the world. . Leavers are the internationalists who wish to trade with the whole world.

I also had relatives who died in that war, and I'm quite sure that they didn't die for this country to descend into poverty and subservience.

Your Project Fear - some areas of this country are already living in poverty and subservience, under EU rule.

They certainly didn't die for the break-up of the Union.
More project Fear. Are you seriously saying that the Scots are going to vote for
the Euro
funding the accession of countries even poorer than they are, like Albania
handing their declining oil revenues over to Brussels while they watch the rest of the UK prosper out of the EU
uncontrolled EU migration into Scotland

I am Scots. We don't buy that nonsense.

Fakenamefornow. Or maybe NF can help answering that....after all he has been looking after the interest of British fishermen. He even attended to a couple of meetings out of forty.

Oh, and BTW - you do realise that St George was not actually English, and never even set foot on British soil? So your argument can't even stand proud on that point. (I believe he was Turkish, but stand to be corrected). He certainly was not English.

Turkey didn't exist then, as no Turks had invaded Anatolia at that point. Saint George is widely believed to be Greco-Roman Judean from a noble Roman family, born in a town in the Eastern Roman Empire that roughly corresponds to modern day Lod in Israel.

So while it is correct to say that he wasn't English, you could argue that he is emblematic of the roots of Western European Christian civilisation.

Though I have to say that I have never quite understood why St Cuthbert is not the patron saint of England. He liked sheep and protected ducks, which, in my view, is a jolly good thing.

Springing - Britain & France declared war with Germany two days after Hitler invaded Poland and ignored their ultimatum to withdraw. (3rd Sept 1939, BBC 'On This Day')

Do they recall our reasons for declaring war? They had a lot to do with solidarity with other countries.
^This is correct.

Springing. What liny said. In spades.

Springing. With regard to your other point about the dissolution of the U.K. Did you not hear Alyn Smith's speech yesterday in European Parliament? You know the one, where he asked the countries not to forget Scotland and received a standing ovation?

Contrast that with the embarrassing one from Nigel Ferage- who actually bothered to turn up for once. But no no no this is just project fear. Nicola Sturgeon isn't really looking to break away from the uk.

Nice post springing I am in Scotland too. You appear not be racist not stupid. I think there might just be 1 million of us north of the border.

A standing ovation from MEPs? What valued support. They wouldn't even let us join the Euro and thank god for that.

jane I may not be Farage's biggest fan, but I think we now know never to underestimate him.

Springing: Leavers are the internationalists who wish to trade with the whole world.

That statement is completely unfounded and patently false based on what we have heard from many leavers on their reasons for voting.

The trouble is that the whole world has no motivation to trade with us. Why should they, when they have a large market of 27 other producers with unified trading terms?

Fakename ..... even the Beeb reported on how Lincolnshire voted. "Lincolnshire records UK's highest Brexit vote"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616740

Everything now depends on how good the team assembled is in drafting new legislation. I suspect that BoJo may be a plant in the Leave campaign.