Do we want an EU Army?

[SpringingIntoAction]

The President of the European Commission has said that he wants an EU Army

President Junckers said:

“You would not create a European army to use it immediately,” Juncker told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper in Germany in an interview published on Sunday.

“But a common army among the Europeans would convey to Russia that we are serious about defending the values of the European Union.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

Former British Army commander Col Richard Kemp warned against the UK joining an EU army, saying it would be giving up our country's right to self-defence

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/02/uk-would-give-up-right-to-self-defence-if-forced-to-join-europea/

The telegraph reports that Mrs Merkel has a blueprint to create a European Army and may use this in a bargaining point with the UK

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11861247/Merkel-expects-Cameron-to-back-EU-army-in-exchange-for-renegotiation.html

Tony Blair today called for a European Army

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3401145/Tony-Blair-insists-Europe-needs-integration-revives-calls-European-army-way-confront-terror-threat-ISIS.html

The EU is already involved in military operations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_operations_of_the_European_Union

The EU has a military training mission to Mail

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/21/eus-military-mission-mali-attacked

and in the Central African Republic

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/03/16-central-african-republic-eu-military-advisory-mission-gets-green-light/

It's clear the EU sees itself as much more than merely a trading organisation.

It's not just aiming for political union, but also to be become an influential military force - that is not under democratic control.

I don;t want to be part of a military bloc and political union, masquerading as a trade organisation. I want out of all that.

Former head of defence Lord Guthrie has switched to Leave from remain over "dangerous EU Army plans".....

Whilst I'm loathe to even mention recent tragic events I feel a point had to be made with regards to them.

People will fight and die for their country, even in pointless places like Afghanistan for pointless reasons.

Noone would for the EU.

Whilst the remain campaign seek to prove that a voter might be twenty quid a month better off as their only argument they ignore this disparity.

I was wavering but this thread has convinced me we need to Leave.

AlcoChocs, I was always for Brexit for many reasons. But now the possibility of a vote to remain utterly terrifies me because of the EU army plans. Those wanting to maintain the status quo are in for a nasty shock. If we vote to remain, reforms will come thick and fast and there will be absolutely nothing we can do about them.

No!!!

Good post AnnaForbes

This would be such a change to the role and nature of EU, in both defence and foreign policy, that it should not be an unknown set to be revealed the day after the vote.

Remain isn't 'remain in EU as it is now', it's 'remain in EU and everything it becomes'

Quite.

The direction of travel is clear though our own politicians like to be a bit vague about it all.

If we vote to stay in it is a vote of confidence in the driver to press the accelerator.

If the EU get their way and create an army, I would like to ask Remainers how they will feel come the day of a major conflict and your sons and daughters are conscripted into the EU army over which this country will have no control. Will you wave them off with a cheery smile? I am guessing not.

One more reason, if it's needed, to vote OUT.

If we vote out, I'd like to ask Leavers how they will feel about having their own children conscripted to fight their neighbours, as every generation but ours and the preceding one has had to?

Will you wave them off with a cheery smile? I guess not.

Mrs Blackthorn A tad disingenuous don't you think, given that we will still be in NATO, and thus Article 5 prevents this happening?

It's every bit as meaningful as the preceding post (ie not at all).

Exactly Scaryteacher and not worthy of a response.

If the EU get their way and create an army, I would like to ask Remainers how they will feel come the day of a major conflict and your sons and daughters are conscripted into the EU army over which this country will have no control. Will you wave them off with a cheery smile? I am guessing not.

That is about as likely to happen as a zombie invasion. In the event of a zombie invasion I reckon it's going to be everyone for themselves anyway.

""The remorseless logic of a single European state means that the British Army will be no more and that our barracks will be filled with soldiers from a single European Army"."

General Sir Michael Rose.

Now should we listen to an expert on this merrymouse, blackthorn et al?

He might be an expert on being a soldier, but I'm not convinced he knows much about how the EU works if he thinks that the EU is currently a single European state. Assuming that he is a little more clued up, yes if the EU were a sovereign state, it probably would have just one army, but it isn't and there is no likelihood that it will be.

The remorseless logic he refers to is that of ever closer union.

The logical conclusion of which is a single European state.

Simples.

I suspect Mr Cameron is going to be in quite some trouble trying to explain to the electorate how his promises in this regard are merely ambitions, a bit like his ambitions on immigration.

The logical conclusion of which is a single European state.

No, it really isn't.

Leaving aside the UK (who clearly wouldn't agree to this), You really, honestly think this would go down well with the French?????

Yes it really is, and the stated intention of the EU hierarchy.

Shocking naivety and ignorance from you mousey.

Try going to Brussels and seeing their mural to the European civil war. When was that you might think, well the dates are clearly 1939-1945.

Try reading any of the articles where the EU top brass talk about developing a single European consciousness, a patriotism towards a single European state rather than a national one.

Oddly enough the good General knows a good deal more about this than you do.

Quel suprise.

In the last few days in Poland, a 10 day NATO exercise with
over 31,000 troops from 24 countries, including 14,000 American troops.

If they want a war with Russia they will need an EU army.

One of many reasons why to vote LEAVE.

Eastern Europe needs permanent Nato troops, say ex-US policymakers

Yesterday in the Guardian.

The EEC was set up for trade - NATO was set up to keep the peace.

We don't need an EU army - Juncker clearly wants one. That's scary.

Scares me. Also no discrimination, our sons and daughters will be cannon fodder. :( Makes me shudder and history has proven time and time again it is being realistic.

My children will not be sent to fight the elites wars.

Vote LEAVE

EU hierarchy.

There is no EU hierarchy.

It is run by it's members who are individual sovereign states.

It is quite possible for those states to agree to joint operations, as they do currently through NATO, and it is quite possible for different nations to fight together, as they have ever since different groups of people formed tribes and decided to fight their neighbours.

However, that is not the same as those individual countries becoming a nation state against their wishes. Any kind of organisation can only operate with the consent of it's members or by force, and if the EU wants to control the UK by force, it really doesn't matter whether we are in or out of the EU.

Do we want an EU Army?
It's down to sovereignty.
Do you want to be a citizen of the UK or do you want to be a citizen of Europe?
I think it is a shame that something that has been so fought for, so valued can be given away for some PR spin. Honestly, I never thought it would be so easily sold out.