Do we want an EU Army?

[SpringingIntoAction]

The President of the European Commission has said that he wants an EU Army

President Junckers said:

“You would not create a European army to use it immediately,” Juncker told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper in Germany in an interview published on Sunday.

“But a common army among the Europeans would convey to Russia that we are serious about defending the values of the European Union.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

Former British Army commander Col Richard Kemp warned against the UK joining an EU army, saying it would be giving up our country's right to self-defence

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/02/uk-would-give-up-right-to-self-defence-if-forced-to-join-europea/

The telegraph reports that Mrs Merkel has a blueprint to create a European Army and may use this in a bargaining point with the UK

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11861247/Merkel-expects-Cameron-to-back-EU-army-in-exchange-for-renegotiation.html

Tony Blair today called for a European Army

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3401145/Tony-Blair-insists-Europe-needs-integration-revives-calls-European-army-way-confront-terror-threat-ISIS.html

The EU is already involved in military operations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_operations_of_the_European_Union

The EU has a military training mission to Mail

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/21/eus-military-mission-mali-attacked

and in the Central African Republic

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/03/16-central-african-republic-eu-military-advisory-mission-gets-green-light/

It's clear the EU sees itself as much more than merely a trading organisation.

It's not just aiming for political union, but also to be become an influential military force - that is not under democratic control.

I don;t want to be part of a military bloc and political union, masquerading as a trade organisation. I want out of all that.

Brexit could cause war? Utter nonsense, David Cameron (Simon Jenkins in The Guardian, 9th May)

The article starts and finishes with the following:

"David Cameron’s history is rubbish. Whatever the virtues of remaining in the EU, his idea in today’s speech that “whenever we turn our backs on Europe, sooner or later we come to regret it” is nonsense. As for Brexit “raising the risk of war”, it is Project Fear gone mad."

"If British history is to be cited in this debate, it is a sustained, overwhelming, irrefutable argument for Brexit."

Throughout the article the writer gives numerous examples in history when not becoming overly close to other parts of Europe proved to be the best thing for Britain.

Wow! Guardian's Simon Jenkin said that? I am surprised - and delighted

Looks like we lready have an EU army - despite the reasurances that it would never happen!

UK 4th Brigade & 2nd Bn Yorkshire Regt is now the EU High Readiness Battlegroup, commanded by Council of EU.

twitter.com/COLRICHARDKEMP/status/734015680840892416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Just keep telling us that what we are seeing is not happening - that's how the Government and the EU continues to fool us.

If this were on MN Relationship boards it would be called 'gaslighting'

This is seriously worrying. The concept of the EU Battlegroup has been around for some years, I think, but is obviously gradually and quietly expanding.

Nothing to see Limer, move along. You think you saw it, but you just imagined it because it's not happening.

I can do EU-speak

Battlegroups aren't an army & they compliment NATO & the UN.

I can do EU-speak

You certainly can, you sound like a modern-day Sir Humphrey.

Decades of training and a spell at Sunningdale did that

Seems we no longer need to train civil servants. Probably because the EU and private companies like SERCO are making them all redundant

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_School_of_Government

Damned predicative text, my last post should read complement not compliment.

The 2nd Battalion The Yorkshire Regiment is an EU Battle Group, which has these future plans on its website, "After some well earned leave in February, 2 YORKS look forward to taking over as the European Union’s High Readiness Battle Group in the second half of the year". According to Wiki, EU Battle Groups have been described as a 'standing army'. A standing army is defined as, "[...] a permanent, often professional, army. It is composed of full-time soldiers (who may be either career soldiers or conscripts) and is not disbanded during times of peace. It differs from army reserves, who are enrolled for the long term, but activated only during wars or natural disasters, and temporary armies, which are raised from the civilian population only during a war or threat of war and disbanded once the war or threat is over. Standing armies tend to be better equipped, better trained, and better prepared for emergencies, defensive deterrence, and particularly, wars." Several high profile names have called for an EU army, as we know, including Junker and the Head of the German parliament’s foreign policy committee Norbert Röttgen, who said recently that an EU army is “a European vision whose time has come”

I think we are into army territory...

^I can do EU-speak

You certainly can, you sound like a modern-day Sir Humphrey. grin^

Ha, ha! IF you attack the messenger it just looks as though you have no counter argument to the message.

EU battlegroups were developed in response to the for UN-EU Declaration on crisis management;

www.irishtimes.com/news/value-of-eu-battlegroup-plan-stressed-by-annan-1.1162012

NATO welcomes EU battlegroups. It says the security environment is changing, that both NATO & the EU need to adapt;

www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_121291.htm

STIDW What you've said doesn't negate the fact that we have a de facto EU army when we were repeatedly told that there was not going to be such a thing.

What exactly is a "Battlegroup" in plain English? I've never heard of a Battlegroup before so looked it up.

From the British Army website:

"A Division usually consists of two or three Brigades. These Brigades are further sub-divided into smaller formations known as Battlegroups. The Battlegroup is the basic building brick of the fighting formations."

From Wikipedia:

"A battlegroup (British/Commonwealth term), or task force (U.S. term) in modern military theory is the basic building block of an army's fighting force."

De facto or not , in military context battlegroups are not an army. In the hierarchy an army has the strength of 100k+ under the command of an officer. EU battlegroups are 18 battalions with a strength of 1500 each. Two of them are required to be ready for deployment .

Could it be a small-to-medium sized army? AKA SMA?

Seriously, Battle Group kind of gives the game away...

...and of course the SS was just a unit. But wait, the divisions within the SS were known as battlegroups (Kampfgruppen).

Doraexploradora
Nice to know I'm not the only one

Who is scaremongering now? It's a non-story that preys on peoples ignorance about the differences between a rapid response unit & an army. Only the DM & the right wing propaganda Breitbart have bothered to report the manoeuvres.

I knew you'd say that. If only we knew the actual details, then we'd be happy with what we see before our eyes. In actual fact, what I see is soldiers training to engage in warfare. You can obfuscate the semantics but whether it's an army or a battlegroup, the function is the same. In drawing on the SS comparison, I wasn't actually scaremongering but making the point that just because a 'battlegroup' is smaller than your average army, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't fear it.

So UK forces are committed to both NATO and EU duties. I wonder if there's any degree of conflict there.

EU Army Plans Kept Secret From Voters
Details of Brussels power grab buried until day after referendum

"Steps towards creating a European army are being kept secret from British voters until the day after next month’s referendum.

The plans, drawn up by the EU’s foreign policy chief, foresee the development of new European military and operational structures, including a headquarters. They are supported by Germany and other countries as the first step towards an EU army."

They're mere 'Battle Groups'. Nothing to worry about. As if the politicians would ever lie. They've only got our best interests at heart.

More worrying than the EU battlegroup for me is the eurocorps.

65000 infantry that report directly to the EU. They wear the EU symbol, play ode to joy on parade and have expanded rapidly in recent years.

All that it would take in order to remove any pretence that it isn't an EU army is a name change, a stroke of the pen.

Junker thinks that Russia didn't take the EU seriously because it has no army and he has worked to ensure that it does.

Frankly we are a part of it whether we like it or not. People who say we will never join an EU army forget that we are already funding one, or at the very least the prototype of one, through our contributions. As it expands more of our money will go on it until our politicians argue that it is more efficient, that we are paying for it anyway etc.

The EU wants it and our politicians are too weak to prevent it.