How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

Democracy is indeed a flexibly-defined term, depending on who is defining it. How democratic is this?

2014 - Hillary Clinton earns $11 million for speeches to banks including Goldman Sachs
2015 - Goldman Sachs pays a six-figure sum to the Remain campaign
2016 - Hillary Clinton interferes backs Remain campaign

I'm voting stay, mainly because the brexit campaign is all smoke and mirrors and doesn't bear any proper scrutiny.

The fact that brexiters will confidently use government statistics when it confirms their point but scream vested interests or project fear when it doesnt.

The use of project fear allegation when economics and trade are discussed, but they are happy to create fear by exaggerating the impacts of immigration.

The fact that when they discussed trade prior to Obama and Clinton speaking they discussed beneficial trade deals withat the US, and then complained about bullying when they were told that it wouldn't work.

The fact that many brexit voters on here have some weird idea that the EU is entirely negative and has some nefarious plan to make life in the UK worse.

If all of you fully paid up members of the tin foil hat brigade are voting out, it's a really good reason to vote in.

And it's condescending posts like yours lurked101 which will make me all the more determined to vote out. tin foil hat brigade. Fucking patronising.

out!

Well if the cap fits... (or should that be tin foil cap?).

I'm not going to apologise, cause you know, I'm right.

Lurked, I'm for Remain too. We have both posted to that effect on a number of threads. Please don't antagonise Leave voters or undecided voters by assuming they are all swivel-eyed UKIP loons.This is a tough decision and we will all have to live with the referendum outcome whatever it is. Don't drive people to Vote Leave by winding them up and being disrespectful to them.

Especially when a lot of the posts on here have been based around:

"The EU will force us to do xyz cause they will say the people have spoken"

Cameron got a deal, enforceable through international law, that exempts us from closer political union.

"Turkey will join and this will be terrible"

You're only saying that cause you "fear" immigration, also there are hundreds of thousands of people here who are Turkish or of direct Turkish decent alread (one of them leads the Brexit campaign tbf).

Its not patronising to say that the Brexit crowd willfully misinterpret the facts and figures, the votes against the UK's interest, the 350 million a week figures etc have all been proved to be either incorrect or misused but they still use them.

Its not patronising to say that there is no real idea of what kind of trade deal we will end up with, only that in reality the Brexiters free trade and full access to the EU without baring any of the costs won't happen. You know, cause its been said already by the Germans and the French, why would the rest of the EU cut the UK a deal that is better than their own?

Its not patronising to say that the Brexit camp have raised TTIP as an issue, not because they are really bothered about it, but because they think it gives a valid reasons to leave the EU. They trumpet that the EU will sell us out to the corporations, but they also complain that the EU binds companies up with too much regulation. What do you think deregulation outside of the EU will do? You do realise that much EU regulations is to the customers and the emloyees benefit? That one of the reasons why TTIP is taking so long to negotiate is that the EU is protecting these rights? Oh and that most of your Brexit politicians would have signed it unconditionally.

Its patronising to come here and misuse data, to pick and choose which bits of Government information you want to use and then cry "vested interest" or lack of impartiality when it doesn't. Its patronising to shout about "project fear" and then hint at dark and nefarious plans on the EU's behalf and to do so from unfounded suspicions.

You accuse the Brexit camp of smoke and mirrors.

Seen it all now.

I agree, and have said many times, that no one knows what life outside the EU will look like. But by the same token we have no idea what a future inside the EU will look like as we can never foresee the future.

Lurked101 that's pretty rude and unforgiving terminology. Perhaps joining a debate without offending the other side will get you further in the discussion.

Just because someone chooses to vote a different way to you it does not make them the 'tin foil hat brigade'. How offensive.

My reasons for voting to leave are perfectly valid, thought out, and based on my personal views of world politics and how we can best fit in it and maintain our position.

But I disagree with you so you clearly aren't open to listening. I think a lot of the 'remain' points are excellent but they don't balance out or over reach my concerns. On balance I believe we should leave.

Smoke and mirrors yes, because of the willful misinterpretation of data and facts, and the ability to switch and change between saying government figures are wrong when they don't prove your point, yet right when they do.

I've said all along that if the figures are released that confirm Cameron's point about how many EU immigrants (40% he said) rely on benefits for the first few years are proved correct we should be looking to stop the ability to claim benefits, but most sources believe this figure to be too high.

I'm not going to take back the tin foil hat comment, because far too many people keep saying things like " The EU will run roughshod over us", " We won't have the pound" etc when there is no indication that either of these things will happen.

I am for Leave mainly, DH is looking like remain - overoptimistic as ever!

Flingingmelon good point on impending euro issues.

Scaryteeacher yes about EU elite, when I waver over this vote I pop over to see what Federica Mogherini is up to on Twitter and am reassured that it is best to vote Leave.

Please tell me what the EU will look like when Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia and Macedonia and Turkey join.

Please tell me whether we will permit our fellow EU citizens from those new EU countries to come to live in the UK immediately, or whether we will seek to deny them that right, and for how long that may be permitted, (bearing in mind that all EU citizens must have equal rights to freedom of movement ?

Pease tell me when we should expect these new fellow EU citizens to come to live in the UK, as it will take several years to ensure we have the homes, schools and medical facilities ready for them so they don't have to squeeze into existing housing, school and hospitals.

Please tell me if Mr Putin is going to permit the EU to continue to 'groom' the Ukraine into wanting to join the EU by giving it another Euro 28billion, despite the fact that EU involvement in the Ukraine is raising tensions in that area.

uatoday.tv/news/russia-claims-billion-in-losses-due-to-eu-ukraine-association-558722.html

While unemployed and impoverished EU citizens in countries such as Greece are unable to afford basic medical needs, could the EU please tell me how many more billions of Euros it intends to spend on things outside the EU, such as training African troops, which I don't see as the primary role of a trading organisation.

www.africa-eu-partnership.org/en/about-us/financing-partnership

or dance lessons

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8457729/EU-wastes-billions-in-aid.html

when what impoverished nations really need is not dance lessons, but for us to give them opportunities to trade with us - but the EU prevents that by raising huge barriers to their trade

capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/

Please reassure me that the EU will not have its own army in the future, despite President Junckers desire to have one. A trade organisation does not need its own army.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

It's nice to be in clubs. It's nice to be friendly and cooperate with your neighbours.

But when the club you're currently in is restricting what you can do, costing you a lot in membership and veering wildly from its original ideals, turning itself from a club we've joined to do trade, into a club that wants to dominate you politically, and wasting our membership fees, then it's time to leave that club and think about joining a different one.

Sometime other members also leave the club when the first person has been brave enough to go.

The EU will look exactly the same as it does now when those countries join, you know the same as when all those millions of Romanians came here.

Seems the Romanians (and Bulgarians) are experiencing real problems trying to fulfil their EU obligations.

That doesn't bode well for those other impoverished Balkan and Eastern European countries

www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/01/romania-and-bulgaria

Odd that the rich countries aren't queuing up to join the EU.

Your misunderstandings about the international aid issue, is well interesting, but not quite reason enough to leave.

You realise we would have tarrifs against "imporverished" nations if we leave the EU too?

The Army issue has been vetoed from day one.

Oh and :" Please tell me if Mr Putin is going to permit the EU to continue to 'groom' the Ukraine into wanting to join the EU by giving it another Euro 28billion, despite the fact that EU involvement in the Ukraine is raising tensions in that area."

Please tell me that you are not basing your decision to leave on the whims of a despot dictator?

"Odd that the rich countries aren't queuing up to join the EU."

Which rich European nations aren't in the EU?

The problem lurked is that the EU won't look the same in 10, 25, 50 years. It's unrecognisable from the community we (as a nation) signed up to in the 70's. In another 50 years it will be different again. I don't believe ever closer union with a growing number of nations with an ever wider disparity of culture (borne of volume of nations contained in the EU) is a good idea.

I don't believe it's any less risky staying in than leaving. But by leaving we take control of our future as an independent nation. I don't believe for a second the scaremongering of the remain campaign that there will be a cessation of trade etc.

We have exemption agreed from ever closer union.

I don't for one moment believe that the remain campaign is scaremongering, simply repeating what other EU countries have said, what the US has said and what lots of independent economic analysis has said.

There won't be a cessation of trade, just the terms of trade will not be as favorable, which will negatively impact both British consumers and British industry.
This is far more likely than the fanciful, we will get full access to the EU market but bear none of the costs idea that Brexiters reckon will occur.

Do you know what is far more likely? An EEA style agreement, which pleases no one.

Leave

If all of you fully paid up members of the tin foil hat brigade are voting out, it's a really good reason to vote in.

Let me help you with that statement Lurked:

If all of you fully paid up members of the patronising, arrogant, monumentally disparaging to anyone with a different view to yours brigade are voting in, it's a really good reason to vote out.

HTH!

See, everyone has the capacity to be a cunt!

Remain.

Which rich European nations aren't in the EU?

I said countries, Lurked You chose nations

Relatively rich countries not in the EU:

Switzerland,
Iceland, (withdrawn EU membership application)
Greenland (left EEC)
Norway, (rejected joining in 2 referendums)
Monaco, (principality)
Liechtenstein,
Andorra,
The Channel Islands (as self-governing Duchy of Normandy) Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, Breqhou, Herm etc
Isle of Man (as self-governing Crown dependency)
San Marino
Gibraltar (Britsh overses territory)
Vatican City

Poor countries in discussions to join the EU:

Albania,
Bosnia,
Macedonia,
Kosovo,
Serbia

Seems the poor wants want to join to avail themselves of the EU development funding opportunities (i.e. our money) while the rich ones are sensible enough to keep the EU at arms length.

But Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are part of the EEA, so are subject to Freedom of movement and EU regulations and pay into the EU budget. Greenland is still subject to EU treaties, none of them have any say in what the EU does.

So umm, yeah that's the model you want?

The fact that you then link to principalities and countries that rely on being tax havens is quite funny tbh.

Out. When will mnhq give us a poll setting!?