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Brexit

How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

1001 replies

BritBrit · 25/04/2016 14:05

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

OP posts:
lurked101 · 27/04/2016 18:03

I don't think property is a good market to look at.

If the currency rises it will be awful for our exports competitiveness abroad.

Underdogsbollocks · 27/04/2016 18:06

I was stay, but really not sure now..I'm not the brightest tool in the box so trying to do lots of research but I'm just getting more and more confused!!

SpringingIntoAction · 27/04/2016 18:08

I don't think property is a good market to look at.

It's an excellent barometer.

It is not possible to complain about the amount of foreign investment in the property market while saying that foreign investment will dissipate post-Brexit.

It would have done so by now.

The world has a way of dealing with financial upheavals.

lurked101 · 27/04/2016 18:38

I'm not complaining about foreign investment in property. Fdi in industry etc will probably go down so it's worrying.

The property market might actually behave in the opposite way if predicting a post brexit world. The stock market and forex markets may be very volatile so to take money out of these markets and put it in bricks and mortar in London and the SE as they are less volatile.

GandalfsWrinklyHat · 27/04/2016 18:45

Leave. Absolutely.

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 27/04/2016 18:49

We have exemption agreed from ever closer union.

And Blair's a pretty straight kind of a guy, there were never any sexed up dossiers about weapons of mass destruction, the Sun had it right on the Hillsborough disaster, every cloud has a silver lining and the sun will come out tomorrow.

I'm sorry, the events of the last decade or so have ended my faith to believe in this. Politicians say what is expedient in the moment and the EU's history of being held to account over anything is non existent. Sadly that is not tin hatting or swivelling eyes, that's basic speak as I find. I also keep in mind that Cameron as the leading political parties of the UK go, is relatively Eurosceptic compared to the reset. Labour, Libs and SDP would sign that exemption away at the drop of a hat if they got into power.

lurked101 · 27/04/2016 18:53

It's enforceable through international law, or so experts say.

Anyway.. more votes for out..

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 27/04/2016 19:01

I'm sure it is in theory Lurked.

My concern is that it would be enforceable only if it met all the criteria for appeal (it won't, it will fail on technicalities) and if it could be enforced before all the measures wanted were put in place anyway (it won't be, I've worked in government departments, these are standard basic strategies to avoid plans being scuppered by inconvenient buggers who are off message). And if we happened to have a political party in power at the time who wanted to enforce it. Many wouldn't. So I can't put my faith in that.

lurked101 · 27/04/2016 19:10

The problem I have with all of this is the brexit crowds fear of the unknown of an in vote.

Surely there is far more risk and uncertainty from an out vote.

I generally think that if we vote out we will end up with some eea style agreement, but with measures on benefits for new immigrants and that's about it.

The free trade deal will not happen I think that's pretty certain and the economic uncertainty will curb investment short term at least. There is a lot of economic pain coming our way with an out vote.

SpringingIntoAction · 27/04/2016 19:40

I generally think that if we vote out we will end up with some eea style agreement, but with measures on benefits for new immigrants and that's about it.
It might help some people to see what EU on the left if the graphic and EEA outside the EU on the right if the graphic would look like.

How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?
lurked101 · 27/04/2016 19:47

Not all of that graph is accurate. For example Norway has the most close deal to the one that we would seek an contribute 90% per capita of what we do, have freedom of movement, Switzerland don't have a services agreement as far as I'm aware and have been unable to stop freedom of movement.

In the Eea we'd contribute, take the four freedoms and not have a say. It doesn't really suit anyone but that's what I think would happen.

SpringingIntoAction · 27/04/2016 19:52

The big attraction is being free from the European Court of Justice. It sounds like a nice warm pink and fluffy court delivering 'justice' but it's actually the EU's enforcer just there to enforce EU Treaties and reign supreme over out=r own Supreme Court.

lurked101 · 27/04/2016 20:02

But it has worked in our favour in the past, and in the favour of individuals.

This is what worries me, no echr, no human rights act. We could become a neo liberalists wet dream, especially under this government.

Someone above mentioned ttip (again erroneously ) but we would become more like that sort of country you fear outside the EU.

SpringingIntoAction · 27/04/2016 20:08

This is what worries me, no echr, no human rights act. We could become a neo liberalists wet dream, especially under this government.

The ECHR and the EU are 2 different things. We are planning to leave the EU, not the ECHR.

The neo-liberalists wet dream is the EU. That's why Cameron, Goldman Sachs et al want it. They are not saying stay in to protect workers rights etc - they want us to stay in because the EU is a big corporation pig trough that makes laws to suit big corporations and helpfully ensures that under EU control, the Government of no member state has enough power to stop them.

The eu allows the big banks, big corporation, hedge funds etc to have the British public just where they want them - paying into the trough.

Someone above mentioned ttip (again erroneously ) but we would become more like that sort of country you fear outside the EU

We wouldn't. We couldn't. were at the back of the queue.

lurked101 · 27/04/2016 20:23

No we wouldn't be at the back of the queue for British firms to be able to start to rolling back EU regulations.

Well have to disagree on the corporation, I think they're held in check by the EU, and much of the "backing the little gup against the behemoths" is typical neo con meaningless posturing.

It's all a little to vague, a little too drapped in the flag, a little too good to be true.

All the benefits of the EU with none of the costs, access to their trade deals that benefit us, but free to agree our own too (that option isn't allowed to eea countries)

SpringingIntoAction · 27/04/2016 20:49

All the benefits of the EU with none of the costs, access to their trade deals that benefit us, but free to agree our own too (that option isn't allowed to eea countries)

Actually EEA countries can agree their own FTAs.

lurked101 · 27/04/2016 21:24

I think Norway can't because they have full access I may be wrong though

lurked101 · 28/04/2016 07:59

Group of economists came out today for brexit, shame they did it after the OECD contradicted them.

Chalalala · 28/04/2016 09:00

A bit late to the party and I won't comment on the substance because I'm not voting, but -

Springing I think you're being very pessimistic about the possibility of a second referendum. I'm starting to think "stay" may actually win (I have zero data to support my gut feeling), but I also think the Brexit debate would be far, far from over.

The major thing this referendum is doing is bringing Brexit into the mainstream of political discourse. Once it gets 45+% of votes, it will have become impossible to dismiss as the ravings of xenophobic tinfoil hat wearers.

And let's face it, the EU is not going to become a paradise of streamlined efficiency overnight, EU immigration would stay strong, and Britain would continue to have problems it can blame on the EU. So all the reasons behind the Brexit movement would continue existing.

If "stay" wins, the Brexit voters will be disappointed and up for grabs, and no way the Brexit Tories are letting go of this golden opportunity to run on a popular platform that may well get them power.

So while I think "stay" has a good shot this time round, I also think that mid- to long-term, "out" will have many political cards to play, and may well have its day.

DeeCrepid · 28/04/2016 09:16

Every month, MEPs, their staff and office files shuffle on to Strasbourg where plenary sessions are held and then head back to Brussels, which hosts committee meetings. This is just one example of the appalling waste of time and money in the EU. It costs over £114million. We have to leave this organisation which uses our money like this.

ThisCakeFilledIsle · 28/04/2016 12:48

Debate between Patrick Minford and Nick Clegg on single market and post Brexit tarriffs on Daily Politics today.

Ifyoubuildit · 28/04/2016 13:04

Stay

We're shooting ourself in the foot if we leave.

Nearly all established and respected economists think it would be bad for our economy.

As the world becomes more global and connected I can't see why isolating ourselves would be a good thing.

Also, I can't stand Boris. He's a disingenuous tw*t.

Ifyoubuildit · 28/04/2016 13:14

Oh and lurked, you're a star.

By the way, I work for a very large and highly regarded bank. The economists here are certainly not saying the markets will be ok.

They reckon at least a decade of economic turmoil and reduced investment.

redhotfire123 · 28/04/2016 13:48

Looks like another southern europe financial crisis is looming...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36090188

SpringingIntoAction · 28/04/2016 16:11

I would have been surprised if the OECD had backed LEAVE Grin

The OECD has been paid £30million by the EU between 2007 and 2014

Did you hear the mad ranting of the Gurria, the OECD speaker at the EU-funded LSE?

I wish the TV would show it more. In my opinion he sounds so unhinged it will the Obama effect of increasing the LEAVE out.

I expect the OECD also told us we should join the Euro

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