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Brexit

How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

1001 replies

BritBrit · 25/04/2016 14:05

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

OP posts:
lurked101 · 10/05/2016 17:36

The EU army that won't happen you mean?

In terms of frienship groups I know a good few folk who are voting out, but far more who are in and fearful of being led out. We are regulars in our local pub and it is a right mix, so you get to hear a lot of different opinons.

lurked101 · 10/05/2016 17:39

Also funny that you constantly refer to an EU army being used to subjegate people, that is fairly disingenuous.

butteredmuffin · 10/05/2016 17:46

please stop stereotyping leave campaigners, it makes you look like a twat

Well, lock that tongue up with the rest of the silverware, AnnaForbes...

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 10/05/2016 17:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 10/05/2016 17:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

butteredmuffin · 10/05/2016 17:51

Nah, Spring only reports remainers. It's only "bullying" if Spring says it is.

(I have reported her though.)

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 10/05/2016 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

butteredmuffin · 10/05/2016 17:54

Yes, it will be interesting to see whether MNHQ agree that Anna's post is as offensive as my post asking Spring whether she was planning to post anything relevant to the thread topic.

AnnaForbes · 10/05/2016 18:04

The EU army that won't happen you mean? Au contraire, plenty in the press to suggest it will happen. A German defence white paper leaked a few days ago proves Germany's intention to merge the armed forces of each EU nation. It is undeniably one step closer to the superstate.

AnnaForbes · 10/05/2016 18:06

muffin, why dont you stop insulting people with your lazy generalisations if you dont like the response?

Baklava101 · 10/05/2016 18:09

Millyonthefloss said “The EU was founded on good intentions but I don't think it works. It's too big and it's not democratic so the leaders do not listen to the people.”.

Actually the United States of Europe, or EU as it is now known, was NEVER meant to be a democracy. The intention was efficient governance by European elite. Many years down the line Schengen was a practice run, but the ultimate aim is no demarcation of countries – their names will be dropped sooner or later anyway. I am quite a bit older than most of you here ; this is clear from the juvenile comments by one or two posters with horse blinkers on.

My late father knew Jean Monnet quite well socially in the 60s, and Monnet would meet with my father whenever he came to Cairo. He believed the best way to govern is via commission, council and court – the 3 Cs. Monnet wanted to get to a time when no country within the USE could veto a decision; he did not even see why the public should be consulted on anything – just informed. The infrastructure would exist only for the ruling elite, and they could pluck as much manpower from the population as their industries required. Sounds like Britain in the 1930s.

LeaveTheRoundAbout · 10/05/2016 18:10

Telegraph yesterday:

"A German defence white paper, leaked last week but supposed to be kept under wraps until after the referendum, leaves no doubt of Germany’s intention to drive through the merger of Europe’s armed forces “and embark on permanent cooperation under common structures”. Germany has begun to combine substantial elements of the Dutch forces with their own"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/it-is-an-eu-army-that-could-bring-about-war/

The people I know living on continent are in no doubt about this aspect of the project. It's considered too indelicate for British ears, so the whole project is discussed differently for home consumption.

It certainly pays that my DC learned fluency in French and passable German as it leads to more enlightening conversations than my limited foreign language skills could open.

butteredmuffin · 10/05/2016 18:10

Having just referred to me as a "twat", you're not exactly occupying the moral high ground at the moment and you should probably stop accusing other people of resorting to insults.

lurked101 · 10/05/2016 18:12

I've read the things from the white paper, but remember it can be vetoed by any of the EU countries so would likely to be so by the Danes and the UK at least.

Again with the "superstate" statements, and you accuse the remain side of project fear? I don't see an EU superstate happening, a more intergrated Eurozone yes, not the entire EU. But then we having immunity from that guarenteed by international law under Cameron's agreement.

LeaveTheRoundAbout · 10/05/2016 18:32

Lurked : do you speak with people living in Eurozome at all? I can't believe you do or you wouldn't be so naive. It is discussed totally differently in Brussels etc. the Mediterranean Eurozone countries aren't doing well and you wouldn't be so cavalier with declarations of 'few protests" if you had a clue what is really happening in people's lives.

The thinking in the EU corridors is openly known to be to to ban referendums - did you not know that? They've now started to speak about it in public, which is the next step. What the commission wants, the commission gets.

They actually do just want to do what they will, without interference. It isn't scare mongering I'm afraid - read the thinking of some of people that advise the commission for example - they are open enough about their contempt.

there will be no veto.

The pp about original intentions of the EU is spot on. It isn't democratic and never intended to be- it's chipping away all the time.

MangoMoon · 10/05/2016 18:33

The Armed Forces in this country are woefully underfunded & under resources; all 3 services are currently going through a manpower retention crisis.

We already rely on assets from other European countries just to carry out routine exercises, let alone continue to resource OP Shader in Cyprus (the Daesh bombings).
Troops are still elsewhere in the Middle East and all 3 services have been in 'surge' for some time now - they are almost at breaking point.

An EU Army is not such a distant reality, I think.

lurked101 · 10/05/2016 18:35

I have friends and relatives living in the Eurozone, thanks for asking

lurked101 · 10/05/2016 18:36

"What the commission wants, the commission gets"

And you have the temerity to accuse others of not understanding how the EU works, oh my.

LeaveTheRoundAbout · 10/05/2016 18:45

Well you don't speak as someone that has an inkling of how the EU is discussed in France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg etc

nice bunch of mates you have, I assume they all agree with you that just a few moans about "cuts" going on in Greece! The EU is great - look at my book of statistics that says you are having a wonderful life.

Remember lurked statistic said its all great, it's just they didn't realise

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36090188

butteredmuffin · 10/05/2016 18:51

I'm genuinely quite surprised that when I posted asking Spring (in a completely non-sweary, non-abusive way) to stay on topic, she hit the report button and MNHQ deleted it, but when I report Anna for calling me a twat I get deafening silence. Maybe they should read their own Talk Guidelines.

lurked101 · 10/05/2016 18:52

No, I have family in Greece and other friends round the EU, this why you use data, because your experiences and mine are likely not to be the same.

I do agree that there are issues within the Eurozone, but there is also some analysis which points towards the fact that it could improve as the year continues.

Whatever, being out of Europe or not, a eurozone crisis would be terrible for the UK and have very detrimental effects on us.

lurked101 · 10/05/2016 18:58

I also tend to agree with the IMF on debt relief for Greece which would see a 60% cut in its debts, this is likely to be the solution.

However, it is politically difficult because, do you know what comes next?

Chalalala · 10/05/2016 18:58

I don't think anyone is denying there are issues in the UK. What the facts and studies cited suggest is not that everything is rosy, but rather that the source of the issues is not the EU, or immigration. Therefore leaving the EU would not solve the UK's problems, in fact it would quite likely make them worse.

Millyonthefloss · 10/05/2016 19:00

Lurked, you say - When I go back to my native North East I see large levels of unemployment in the indiginous population, but that is the way it has been for decades, I see factories that are now able to produce at the rate they should have been able to all along because they now have staff that are willing to work. I know business owners, who for years couldn't recruit enough people to work at full capacty, an owner of a bus company who couldn't recruit drivers because it invoilved some early morning and late night (but a good rate of pay). All of them now do because they empoy migrants. I know people in the hospitality industry who fear for the future if we brexit.

I am an employer and I too benefit from the Free Movement of People. I can find super competent educated 30 year olds willing to work in the South East for the minimum wage. That is good for me. If all the talented Europeans were not here I would have to pay more. I would also have to hire younger, "locals" who I would have to train in customer service. The bus company above would have to do the same. So would the people you know in the hospitality industry. Wages would have to go up and our dividends would go down. Can you not see how all this might have an impact on job opportunities and wages for what you call the "indigenous population"?

These are the pros and cons of the Free Movement of People. The pros are mostly for employers, of course they are.

However, even as an employer I am still voting Leave.

I think the sovereignty issue is far more important than anything else.

(And after Brexit we could allow plentiful migration or even Free Movement if we want to - which we probably will. But we could allow it from other countries too. I would like to recruit someone from Japan, for example, but it is proving very difficult.)

MangoMoon · 11/05/2016 21:43

Saw this article and thought of this thread - it made me lol.
(No offence intended to anyone, it just made me laugh)

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6301/exclusiveeuremainsaysbrexitwouldresultinasteroidcollisionwith_london

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