How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

To be fair MN is always a pretty accurate poll for what the country is going to do, was firmly tory at the last election and the one prior to that was a bit undecided.

Was it?? I seem to remember having to avoid it totally during election it due to being 'evil Tory scum' etc. Never have I seen so much vitriol. But I really think it's time we got a poll setting, just so regular mumsnetters can have a voice even when the ravings of the opposite side have silenced them on threads.

I think there was a fair bit of that, but mainly on the threads that ended up being benefit bashing. But there was a fair amount of that too.

In balance though the whole place rather seemed to veer to the tory side of things, there was lots of people saying Ed Milliband wasn't electable as leader, and so they proved correct.

Initially I was going to vote leave but after doing my research, I'm going to vote remain!

Way I remember it, MN was solidly anti-Tory last May. I'd never predict an election result based on MN poll!

As of (notamummy10 14:09 post), reasons given by each side

OUTs
4 x to prevent ever closer union
3 x Object to Turkey (others) joining EU
3 x to get away from TTIP
2 x We pay too much money to EU
2 x to minimise exposure to EU financial & other problems
2 x avoid social & env. problems associated with EU immigrants
2 x EU is unwieldy mess
2 x UK will have more sovereignty
2 x will be more secure being out
1 x others are going to vote to leave, too
1 x UK doesn’t have enough influence in EU
1 x Pound is doomed if we leave
1 x EU is not democratic
1 x Eurocrats are loons
1 x Europhiles only in it for own interests
1 x Ins patronised me

===========

INS
4 x Leaves sound like nutters / pie in the sky
3 x Financial catastrophe
2 x too much uncertainty
1 x Leaves fearmonger & lie
1 x EU gives us stability

oops... Pound is doomed if we STAY should say

*But Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are part of the EEA, so are subject to Freedom of movement and EU regulations and pay into the EU budget. Greenland is still subject to EU treaties, none of them have any say in what the EU does.

Lurked

You asked a question - I answered it.

You asked about rich countries outside the EU - I gave you a list.

Yes, some are in the EEA, some are not. Some are in EFTA, some are not. Some are in different trading agreements, such as Pan Med. Some are subject to the 4 freedoms, some are not.

So umm, yeah that's the model you want?

No. That's you making assumptions.

It is NOT a matter of 'You are in the EU or outside and subject to all it's rules' . That's what the REMAIN side completely fails to recognise. There are many countries trading freely, outside the EU and no subject to EU tariffs or membership fees. I suggest the UK as 5th largest economy in the world will have suffiecient clout to make an agreement with the EU that suits us - meanwhile we have other trading agreements to fall back on.

The fact that you then link to principalities and countries that rely on being tax havens is quite funny tbh.

This is a case where size isn't everything. I'd take Monaco's tiny land mass over impoverished Albania's any day.

I don't. I find it quite funny that you want to bring into the EU millions of people who are too poor to contribute to the organisation (except politically).
But, this gives Germany a chance to suck them into the Euro extend masses of credit to them, so they ca buy nice cars from Germany and then the EU cancels their credit cards when they find they can't pay - otherwise known as the Greek Model.
That's why the EU Empire needs to expand - to sucker in more countries, impoverish them and lock them into political union.

lljkk, not sure if 'Ins patronised me' was mine
If so, it's not actually my reason for voting to leave - I was just responding to the 'Outs are tinfoil hat wearing loons' comment!

My reasons for 'out' are amongst those you listed.

Britain is a different beast to other European countries, we don't share borders, we aren't signed up to single currency (and rightly so).
I believe that whilst the theory & original idea behind the European Union is a good one, the reality has proved to be the opposite.
The EU is too unwieldy, it is a mess, it is wasteful.
Because of its expansion, all of the countries within it are now so very different to each other and so cannot possibly be treated equally as what is good for one can be disastrous for another.

The time is right to break away, and whilst it may prove turbulent initially, when the dust settles I think we will be more secure and stronger as a country with full autonomy.

All of the micro states apart from lichtenstein use the euro. All have schengen style rules. All are part of a customs union. The largest has a population of 78,000.

You say I want to bring millions into tje EU Aren't you the one putting words in my mouth now?

Oh and you understanding of Greece is flawed.

Remain. For main reasons, one of which is because of TTIP

We'll still need to sign a trade deal with the USA and given that Cameron/the Conservatives support all the worst bits of TTIP (no protection for the NHS, allowing corporations to sue governments for loss of profit due to their actions), what sort of deal would he sign?

Remain. For main reasons, one of which is because of TTIP shock

We'll still need to sign a trade deal with the USA and given that Cameron/the Conservatives support all the worst bits of TTIP (no protection for the NHS, allowing corporations to sue governments for loss of profit due to their actions), what sort of deal would he sign?

That's rather illogical.

1. We don't need to sign a trade deal with the US. The EU doesn;t have a trade deal with the US and yet we manage to trade billions £ with them every year without a trade deal.

2. If we LEAVE the EU we have removed ourselves from TTIP as TTIP is a deal between the EU and the US. If you are no longer in the EU you cannot be subject to TIP - even if Cameron wants it. It's legally impossible.

3)Cameron cannot give you a UK / US TTIP when we have left the EU because
a) he doesn't have enough time left in the Government's term and
b) Obama has told us that we are at the back of the queue for any new trade TTIP deals - which he said could be 10 years or more

OR

Stay in the EU, have TTIP forced on you - watch it destroy our public services and the NHS

Not a risk I want to take.

So, if you really want to avoid TTIP it's simple - LEAVE the EU

Ah ttip again.. the thing that you have been told repeatedly contains clauses that allow countries to protect theit public services and state owned utilities.

And tell nhs argument,again conviniently ignoring the 2012 act which opens to privatisation anyway.

Lurked

You need to tell 38 degrees, UNITE and all those other organisations that are campaigning against TTIP because of the damage it will do to the NHS that they are wasting their time because you are right and they are wrong.

secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/ttip_home

www.unitetheunion.org/campaigning/stop-ttip-legal-advice/

LEAVE the EU - avoid TTIP - save the NHS

To be fair 38 degrees will campaign on anything.

Unite are acting on poor information, based on their understanding of isds which tbf if invoked withour the clauses said above would risk it.

The unsigned Canadian deal which is used as a model for ttip exempts public services, public utilities and contains a "carve out" clause allowing governments to rule.

I'm voting leave

Oh well, we'll be leaving in June it looks like.

Oh well, we'll be leaving in June it looks like

I disagree Lurked.

Cameron will throw a dead cat into all this.

He will probably say, about a week away from the referendum, that he's secured this wonderful opt out from TTIP for the NHS, so we needn't worry about that and can vote happily for the EU and the wonders of TTIP.

He may even get a last-minute concession from the EU on something quite minor which he will spin as a major attraction to staying in.

He hasn't really played the Scotland-will-go-independant card yet.

We still have Bruiser Brown and Blair to put the pro-EU side

But, as we creep towards Independence Day there is a lot that could go wrong EU-wise and very little that could overturn 40 years of people's intense dislike of the EU and all its interference.

On the minus side we have Bozo the Clown screwing it up for LEAVE

On the plus side for LEAVE we have the Queen's 90th birthday celebrations in June which should get Rule Britannia flowing through our veins.

Well if mn is an effective poll.. I've said before about ttip not being as big a an issue as you think, there's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding around it.

I think we'll vote out.

I think we'll vote out.

I love you Lurked

The only fear I have is that the British don't have the fight in them to vote LEAVE.

When I think of all those countries that have stood up to the EU in previous referendums and rejected even their own government's recommendations, it will devastate us if the British just cave in and place themselves under EU domination, forever..

We get one last chance to save ourselves - 23 June and after that the trap snaps shut - forever.

Bit dramatic... I don't think any decision is over and for all.

However it's worrying me that we do leave, it's going to be a massive economic shock.

However it's worrying me that we do leave, it's going to be a massive economic shock.

The markets will have factored the result in long before 23 June.

How did the markets react to the reunification of Germany - a rich West Germany with a strong currency deciding to unite with a poor East Germany with a virtually worthless currency?

Were the markets shocked then? Genuine question as I didn't follow it much then.

That, too me, would be more seismic than the UK deciding to leave the EU.

That's the worrying thing, it's not a sticket market issue. I think the depreciation in the currency, combined with slowing and very minimal growth shows the risks. If fdi falls, and there is even a small fall in domestic investment, which is likely due to uncertainty we will be in a recession.

I look at property market. There are 56 days left before Independence Day. It takes several weeks if not months to sell a house.
If there was real fear about a Brexit and a rush to get your money out of the UK economy the property money would have slumped before now.
It hasn't.

My fear is that the £ will grow stronger post-Brexit as the UK, freed from EU constraints can start making laws and doing deals that are in this country's interest instead of being 1/28th of the EU's one-size-fits-all deals.

I see a much brighter future freed from the EU shackles.

LEAVE

Leave. Definitely. I dread a Remain vote, we are unlikely to get another chance to leave and, should we stay in, the reforms will come thick and fast (but not the reforms we want). Some of my reasons are outlined in brief below:

TTIP really concerns me. It is a filthy deal which works well for USA and big corporations. It is a very poor deal for us and also for the developing world.

Turkey's accession really concerns me. With a population predicted to reach 91 million by 2050, it will be the dominant member of the EU. Cameron is desperate for Turkey to join the EU and has just pledged £2 billion of UK taxpayers money to assist in their pre-accession plans.

Then there is the security concern. It has become increasingly obvious that jihadis have exploited the migrant crisis to set up sleeper cells all over EU. Extending the EU border to Iraq and Syria is madness.

The move towards a federal union concerns me. I think we will be pressured to adopt the Schengen agreement and the Euro.

Immigration and the strain it is putting on services is a also a major concern. Once the other countries in line for accession join (Albania, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia), we will see much more immigration and even greater strain. The NHS will not be able to survive.

We pay more into the EU than we get back Our subs will increase when the aforementioned countries join because their infrastructure will be built with EU money my taxes.

The above list isn't exhaustive but all I've got time to write now. Each point above warrants its own discussion really.