"Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)" - and separately "Man in ladies loo (with wife with dementia)"

[ThisGreenMoose]

Hello. 1st time poster. Part of this thread has already been discussed in great detail two years ago (www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4935748-man-in-ladies-loo-with-little-daughter?reply=130518972), however the world has significantly changed in the past two years so I'm interested to see people's opinions now, plus further down I ask in relation to my mother with dementia.

I'm a man (early 40's), I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter, and I typically do all the shopping. I was in big Tesco's yesterday and unfortunately just before going to the checkout, my (recently potty trained) daughter told me she needed a wee. With a full trolley I knew I couldn't ask her to wait to check out and get home, so we trundled off to the toilets (leaving trolley with security).

The men's toilets were like ones at Glastonbury at the end of the weekend. My fellow man is (quite fairly) not generally known for being hygienic nor courteous to those using facilities after themselves, and whilst I can put up with it for myself when needed, now I had to get my daughter through there as cleanly as possible.

The floor was wet, bog roll everywhere, unflushed toilets, seats down with wee on them. My daughter was trying to touch anything she could, which made things somewhat difficult whilst carrying her (to keep her from getting wet feet) cleaning the seat, unpacking/unfolding the portable mini seat, getting her to do the business and cleanly out of there. Told my wife of the ordeal when home who just asked why I didn't use the women's toilets, and she said no woman would mind all things considered.

To be honest I wouldn't dare go in the women's toilets. I am well aware of the reputation of men generally, and I absolutely agree with women having a safe space. I'd hate for a woman or girl to feel uncomfortable or threatened by my presence. I'm a bit of a closet feminist.

However, with my wife's opinion shared, and had the men's been worse or engaged, would you say it would be fair or right for me to go in the women's toilets? Or can you suggest anything I could do differently?

Separately, but on partly the same topic, my mother has dementia (FTD) and is currently capable of using the toilet herself, but my family know she is not far off progressing to the point where she will need care. Our father / her husband is caring for her at the moment.

I'm sure there will be a time soon when she is caught short whilst out and about, and my father will need to help her (or myself if I'm looking after her). Should he/I be going into the women's toilet with her, or take her into the men's? I suppose as she has a hidden disability she could genuinely use the disabled toilet if there was one.

Interested to hear people's opinions. Thanks

Girl with dad nope to disabled toilet unless one of them is disabled or it is an infuriating mix of accessible loo and baby change

We can agree to disagree I assume.
I wouldn’t want my OH taking any small child into the men’s toilets.
If there are no disabled/accessible facilities, women’s bathrooms are the best option with small children.

Your child is a toddler, that she is a girl is irrelevant to whether or not you should enter the ladies toilets. The potty won't work for much longer, you'll have to brave the men's loos at some point so get used to it.

That's ridiculous. Why on earth couldn't your DH take a child into the men's toilets? Does your husband really use the ladies when he takes the kids out?

Personally I wouldn’t mind a man taking a little girl into the ladies but I know that I’m in the minority, as demonstrated by this thread.

There was a post on here a while back re parents using disabled toilets and it got very heated. The consensus was it is never, ever appropriate.

Men are so problematic that a man can’t take his boy into the men’s loos?

That is an awful thought. And the logic of ‘and therefore men should be allowed into women’s loos’ you see how that’s utterly illogical?

Again women’s spaces AND disabled people’s spaces being potentially impacted by the behaviour of men- whether from a safety or hygiene perspective.

Nailed it.

You and your daughter - use the mens. Take wipes. Complain (both to the facility, and in general to your fellow man).

Your father and mother the accessible obviously - if only because there's not enough room for two adults in a normal cubicle anyway, and the accessible ones have grab bars and alarms and are more spacious for exactly this person.

Children can go in either toilet. Adults go in the toilet that matches their sex. A toilet being dirty is certainly unpleasant, but doesn't mean you can use the wrong toilets just because you don't want to clean up.

Use the disabled toilet. I was taken aback yesterday when at an almost empty shopping mall (very early on a wet, cold Sunday) a man walked past two empty disabled toilets to take his daughter into the women’s. The child was actually of an age where I would have thought she could go by herself (looked mid/older primary) but if he didn’t think so, there was absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have used the disabled.

Accessible toilets are not only for disabled people, they are for anyone requiring space, which includes parents with children, and particularly with prams. Often, the changing facilities will be in the disabled/accessible toilet.

The disabled toilet is the one you use helping your mum, it’s bigger for starters. If a child is too young to take themselves you take them to the toilet that is correct for you unless there’s a unisex, parent and child or disabled toilet available. In the case of supermarkets, use the disabled loo

Don’t shoot the messenger.

Heres the thread on the disabled loos.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5229706-to-be-annoyed-at-being-told-to-be-considerate-of-disabled-people

First reply nails it.

it’s actually worrying that a grown adult with a child had to make a post on mumsnet to work out what to do here.

So you wouldn’t consider using the disabled toilets because neither of you have a disability. But you want to talk about using the ladies’ toilets even though you are not female. Make it make sense!

The accessible toilet is there for you to use.

People may not agree that this toilet covers both these scenarios, and I offer no opinion. But factually, it does.

This.

The issue is the filthy toilets. So take that up with the store.

The sex of the toddler is a red herring, boy toddlers equally at risk of filth.

When there are no accessible toilets available, and the men’s toilets are too vile to use, absolutely. Obviously he is courteous, calls out to see if there are people inside, asks if they mind, explains why. People are extremely understanding. He hasn’t had a negative reaction to date. A couple of times he’s been asked to wait until someone has left the facility, which ofc he’s obviously happy to do so. There’s no drama.

Definitely best to use the accessible/disabled toilets when available.

No drama doesn't mean it's fine. If men are gross that's for the men (your DH included) to deal with. No excuse for him being anywhere near the ladies loos.

This.
Don’t go into the women’s loos.

“report it to the staff” I get the sentiment but it doesn’t help OP unless he happens to frequent there often AND his child often needs the toilet there.

Of course he hasn't had a negative reaction, women are conditioned from birth not to react negatively to men who cross their boundaries. The women your husband is intimidating are unlikely to confront him about it, that's how he gets away with it.