"Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)" - and separately "Man in ladies loo (with wife with dementia)"

[ThisGreenMoose]

Hello. 1st time poster. Part of this thread has already been discussed in great detail two years ago (www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4935748-man-in-ladies-loo-with-little-daughter?reply=130518972), however the world has significantly changed in the past two years so I'm interested to see people's opinions now, plus further down I ask in relation to my mother with dementia.

I'm a man (early 40's), I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter, and I typically do all the shopping. I was in big Tesco's yesterday and unfortunately just before going to the checkout, my (recently potty trained) daughter told me she needed a wee. With a full trolley I knew I couldn't ask her to wait to check out and get home, so we trundled off to the toilets (leaving trolley with security).

The men's toilets were like ones at Glastonbury at the end of the weekend. My fellow man is (quite fairly) not generally known for being hygienic nor courteous to those using facilities after themselves, and whilst I can put up with it for myself when needed, now I had to get my daughter through there as cleanly as possible.

The floor was wet, bog roll everywhere, unflushed toilets, seats down with wee on them. My daughter was trying to touch anything she could, which made things somewhat difficult whilst carrying her (to keep her from getting wet feet) cleaning the seat, unpacking/unfolding the portable mini seat, getting her to do the business and cleanly out of there. Told my wife of the ordeal when home who just asked why I didn't use the women's toilets, and she said no woman would mind all things considered.

To be honest I wouldn't dare go in the women's toilets. I am well aware of the reputation of men generally, and I absolutely agree with women having a safe space. I'd hate for a woman or girl to feel uncomfortable or threatened by my presence. I'm a bit of a closet feminist.

However, with my wife's opinion shared, and had the men's been worse or engaged, would you say it would be fair or right for me to go in the women's toilets? Or can you suggest anything I could do differently?

Separately, but on partly the same topic, my mother has dementia (FTD) and is currently capable of using the toilet herself, but my family know she is not far off progressing to the point where she will need care. Our father / her husband is caring for her at the moment.

I'm sure there will be a time soon when she is caught short whilst out and about, and my father will need to help her (or myself if I'm looking after her). Should he/I be going into the women's toilet with her, or take her into the men's? I suppose as she has a hidden disability she could genuinely use the disabled toilet if there was one.

Interested to hear people's opinions. Thanks

When with your mum, use the disabled toilet.
With your daughter, use the mens and carry wipes. And if the toilets are disgusting report it to the staff.

Agree.

In both of these situations I would think that using the disabled loo/ baby change cubicle is the best option and would fully support anyone choosing to do so. The ladies is not suitable for a man to enter ( unless the cleaner is male, in which case users are notified in advance).

Your father should use the disabled toilets - fairly obviously. You should use the male loos - though if they’re that revolting I doubt anyone would have an issue with you also using the disabled loos. As an aside why didn’t you report the state of the toilets to customer services?

It shouldn't be hard to work put to use the disabled with a disabled person.

As for parent with small child I think the general rule is you go into the toilet of the parents sex until said child can go in on their own.

No one minds a 5 year old lad in the ladies with his mum, they may a 5 yo girl in there with her dad

There are zero circumstances in which a man should use the women's toilets. If the men's toilets are so awful that you couldn't take a young child in there, this is something to take up with the staff in the venue. You don't just use the women's. If your mum needs help on the toilet and she is happy for a man to help her with this, the appropriate facility is the disabled toilet.

I was in the ladies’ toilets at a zoo recently and a massive bloke emerged from the cubicle next to me with his young daughter. I immediately, rightly or wrongly, felt very uncomfortable. And I am in the privileged situation of never having been sexually assaulted in any way. I hate to think how triggered a more vulnerable woman might feel. Please don’t do it. Take her in the mens with you or use unisex changing facilities.

It's quite remarkable that men leaving loos filthy might force non filthy man with small child into ladies. Men - stop being flithy.

Become familiar with 1) places where the men’s washrooms are kept clean 2) places that offer family washrooms 3) places that offer disabled washrooms,
It may mean shopping slightly further away, or at shops you don’t usually consider.
There’s zero need for a man to enter a women’s washroom.

Blokes loos can be minging. Having cleaned toilets for a living I always feel for the cleaners. Most supermarkets pay a seperate company to come in as staff don’t want to clean them so they only come at specific times rather than hourly or something which is probably what they need.

Your average baby change normally has a loo, I’d just take her in there.

Your wife certainly doesn’t speak for women

Eyeroll at “a bit of a closet feminist”

What use to womankind (including your daughter) is that?? Speak up!!!

Mum with dad - definately disabled loo. Girl with dad - also disabled loo, or men's loo.

Yep agree totally - men should never go in the women’s toilets EVER

i can't believe youve had to ask this..sorry but your wife sounds like a right muppet to even suggest this..use the baby changing room...theres usually a toilet in there

The "disabled" toilets are in fact "accessible" toilets. You should use them in either scenario.

With your daughter ask if a female assistant can help. They can check if anyone’s in and warn anyone while you’re in there. Or they may just advise you to use disabled. Your mum should used disabled

I think that you should stand outside and as a woman comes out explain and ask for her help to go back in and ask for permission to take your DD in. I think everyone would want to help.

Other than that, go armed with Dettol wipes and hand-wipes into the men’s, bought ahead from Tescos. And make sure there she has a wee before leaving home or stays home.

errr NO....men dont belong in our toilets thank you very much

Yes this.
Please don't enter the ladies loo.

Of course you can’t go in the women’s toilets 🙄

Your mother can use the disabled and you can manage your DD in the men’s.

I don’t have an particular issue with very young children using the disabled toilets but I know so people do.

in the meantime get on to the places you utilise to sort out appropriate clean facilities

Totally correct answer.

As a man you cannot go into the ladies toilet.

Firstly, women’s and girls’ rights are not your wife’s to give away. The issue here is men leaving their facilities in a disgusting state and the store not cleaning up. So you speak to the store about that.

In your second case I would assume that using an accessible toilet would be the best option (and may be an option for the first case, I don’t know).

But you are right in that you, a man, should not enter a female space so that you did not doing so.

I take everything back as Tescos would have an accessible option. Sorry everyone I went into automatic be-kind mode, forgetting there was another option all along.

Personally I wouldn’t mind a man taking a little girl to the ladies’ loos. However, I’m very fortunate never to have been in a situation where I’ve felt threatened by a man. Many have though and for that reason alone, women’s spaces should be safe places, just for women.