"Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)" - and separately "Man in ladies loo (with wife with dementia)"

[ThisGreenMoose]

Hello. 1st time poster. Part of this thread has already been discussed in great detail two years ago (www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4935748-man-in-ladies-loo-with-little-daughter?reply=130518972), however the world has significantly changed in the past two years so I'm interested to see people's opinions now, plus further down I ask in relation to my mother with dementia.

I'm a man (early 40's), I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter, and I typically do all the shopping. I was in big Tesco's yesterday and unfortunately just before going to the checkout, my (recently potty trained) daughter told me she needed a wee. With a full trolley I knew I couldn't ask her to wait to check out and get home, so we trundled off to the toilets (leaving trolley with security).

The men's toilets were like ones at Glastonbury at the end of the weekend. My fellow man is (quite fairly) not generally known for being hygienic nor courteous to those using facilities after themselves, and whilst I can put up with it for myself when needed, now I had to get my daughter through there as cleanly as possible.

The floor was wet, bog roll everywhere, unflushed toilets, seats down with wee on them. My daughter was trying to touch anything she could, which made things somewhat difficult whilst carrying her (to keep her from getting wet feet) cleaning the seat, unpacking/unfolding the portable mini seat, getting her to do the business and cleanly out of there. Told my wife of the ordeal when home who just asked why I didn't use the women's toilets, and she said no woman would mind all things considered.

To be honest I wouldn't dare go in the women's toilets. I am well aware of the reputation of men generally, and I absolutely agree with women having a safe space. I'd hate for a woman or girl to feel uncomfortable or threatened by my presence. I'm a bit of a closet feminist.

However, with my wife's opinion shared, and had the men's been worse or engaged, would you say it would be fair or right for me to go in the women's toilets? Or can you suggest anything I could do differently?

Separately, but on partly the same topic, my mother has dementia (FTD) and is currently capable of using the toilet herself, but my family know she is not far off progressing to the point where she will need care. Our father / her husband is caring for her at the moment.

I'm sure there will be a time soon when she is caught short whilst out and about, and my father will need to help her (or myself if I'm looking after her). Should he/I be going into the women's toilet with her, or take her into the men's? I suppose as she has a hidden disability she could genuinely use the disabled toilet if there was one.

Interested to hear people's opinions. Thanks

I had a similar situation recently, I was in a McDonald's using the ladies and a man emerged from the cubicle next to me. It soon became apparent that he had some kind of learning disability and his mum/carer was in another cubicle but I did wonder why she couldn't have used the separate disabled toilet with him.

A 9 year old boy is different to a grown man in the toilets. My ds is only 5 but I’m dreading when he gets past 7 or 8 with the toilets. I think I’ll just hover outside

No males in female single sex spaces. How hard is it to understand?

You needs don't override our rights.

See I wouldnt bat an eyelid at a male child. Theyre stil very vulnerable.

A grown man is very different.

This

Exactly this. I mean, come on, this is hardly an unsolvable conundrum is it?- it's quite obvious this is what you should do. I am wondering if this is just a goady post to elicit drama.

WTF didnt you report the state of the men's toilets to the staff either???

Your wife is very much in the wrong. Use the disabled toilet.

Do not use the ladies toilets in either case. You take your mum into the disabled facilities and your daughter into the men's. If you had a son and the mens were disgusting would you still feel entitled to use the ladies facilities? And take it from me, supermarket ladies toilets aren't always clean either.

My ds is so tall already at 5. People often think he’s at least 7 so I’m worried there will be a few raised eyebrows soon. There’s no way I’m sending him into men’s toilets yet though!

Another weekend, another men in the Ladies post.

Tell that to the man who tried to shove his thumb up my arse in a packed crowd once, while holding his daughter's hand...

Your mum should use the disabled toilets. You take your daughter to the men's with you, if they're gross tell the staff and hold other men to account for their grossness. If your toddler was a boy the toilets would still be gross but you wouldn't be asking this stupid question.
Men can't come into ladies toilets. Simple.

Can we please STOP telling people it’s ok to use a disabled toilet because the normal ones are manky.

Or swap me my disabled daughter for your one that has a fucking future and I’ll use the manky toilets.

the amount of times our difficult situation has become awful because we’re waiting for some person who didn’t want to wait in the toilet queue finish in the accessible toilet.

Or the guy that saw the disabled changing bed that we need and thought that would be nice and easy to change his small child on.

Or the fucking family all having a lovely wee while I now need to hose down my shit covered child, whose nappy exploded and put her hands in it, who doesn’t queue at the best of times.

it’s fucking horrible having a disabled child.

You use the manky toilet and talk to them about how to negotiate that. I’ll never get to do that.

Told my wife of the ordeal when home who just asked why I didn't use the women's toilets, and she said no woman would mind all things considered.

Tell your wife she doesn't get to consent on behalf of other women.

No men in the women's toilets. Not even ones with young daughters.

And you take your mother into the disabled toilets.

Hands up all the posters whose male partners have managed to get to a ripe old age without ever feeling the need to invade and justify invading womens' spaces!

I’d have no issues with a man in the toilet in these circumstances.

When my DD was little, DH used to carry her into the mens with his/her hand over her eyes until they were in the cubicle. No need for him to go into the womens.

Nor would I but that's not an acceptable opinion to have on Mumsnet.

Thats nice for you but its not your decision to make

It’s my opinion, which is my decision.

I personally wouldnt have an issue with a man taking his toddler daughter to the ladies loo.

However based on how many on this thread would I am sure its best to err on the side of caution. I'd probably use the accessible loo.

As an adult neither would I but I wouldn't be happy with my young, Unaccompanied daughters being put into that situation.

I wish people would remember those others than themselves sometimes!

Stay out of the women’s toilets

First post beat me to it.

Your wife is wrong, many women WILL mind if you use the women's toilets with your daughter. As for the men's being disgusting, what would you do if you had a little boy rather than a little girl?

Your opinion contradicts the law.