Pressured to be sterilised vs no intimacy? Expectation or neglect?

[AnotherLostDad]

First I must apologise for the long post but as I am trying to get some help, I prefer to give the full background... So here you go...

The issue:
After our 3rd child (twin second time round) my wife told me to get sterilised if I wanted to have sex... That the procedure was simple and that all of her husband friend had it done... Each time another of her husband's friend went through it. I was reminded that they had it done and that I should speak to them as really, this is not a big deal...

The background:

• 3 kids by IVF as she has blocked tubes
• My Mrs is early / mid 40
• I am late 30..
• We have been together for 16 years.
• 9 years before our 1st child.

My thinking:

• That the probability is low already to have children due to the treatment required to have them....
• Due to her age -no offence to anybody- the pre-memopause / menopause might just be round the corner... (I just have to be patient... :))
• Probability to be pregnant past 40 is getting lower on any case...
• 6 months Clomid treatment which failed might have depleted her egg stock quite a bit...

Surely the probability for her to be pregnant compounded with the low sex frequency (once every 3 years), does not require me to have a vasectomy?? Or am I still unreasonable?

My proposal to her:

• lets go through a pack of 6 not 12, 6 condoms and when this is done I will go through the surgery...

Her answer:

• She does not like condoms and does not want them... Therefore I should get the snip and this is what everybody do...

When she mentioned again to me that I should get sterilised I told her again about the condoms and that maybe we should have sex a bit for a while (6 times) then once the box is gone, I go for the snip...

She then broke into tears asking me how could I and how dare I saying that the lack of intimacy was due to her and that if I loved her I should know how much heartache it would take her to terminate an unwelcome pregnancy considering all what it took to get our children at the first place... She then left the room, went to the bedroom to cry for the rest of the evening...

So where are we on this?
3 years so far with no sex... Well not really, she gave me a hand job 18 months ago and 4 months ago we nearly had a full blown sex only to be pushed away mid course and was asked to finish myself... No full sex since 2009...

Where does that leave me?

• Believing that I am the a##e h##e that I am told I am... For thinking ill things of her...
• I have no friend or family near by to talk to... Well I cannot even phone to them as I always end up paying some silence treatment / cold shoulder if I do... So I don't bother calling them anymore and now they won't call me since I am far away ie 1000 of miles...
• Each time I try to go out with colleagues, which usually happen once or twice a year it is gone with her... However when I am back I am selfish and usually the following day, if I had a few drinks the night before, I cannot have a lie in and need to continue to look after the kids full on as I always do at weekends...

I look well after my children they are everything to me... All my money goes to the house, my kids and my wife (who doesn't work)...

Home fell like walking on constant egg shell, I never seem to do anything right or it is not good enough...

But despite all this, I have family values and therefore stick with it... For better or for worst was the sentence...

I would like intimacy with my wife not only sex but a cuddle would be nice, the lack of it is killing me and maybe if I go through the Op everything will be better? Lately I was also told that I was fat and should take pride in my appearance as without it there is no chance for sex... I am 5'8 and 12 stones 9...

Well this is the crunch, my left brain is telling me STOP don't do it, all this is not right. She would have fully controlled my body by 'forcing' me to do something, which I might regret...

Furthermore would I regain intimacy with her once I am sterilised? She surely will always find another excuse for not having sex as something might not be right again with her...

I am facing large medical bill and I had to remortgage to pay for them...

We are consultant hopping at the moment... None of them are good enough to find what she has, the reason for her breathing problems... For her back pain... For her ankle swelling... Etc etc etc...

What do you think? Have I really lost the plot and am I such the twisted and bitter bast#rd that I am led to believe I am? Or should I go through the op and be a man, like all of her husband friend, who seem so perfect, to regain intimacy with my wife?

Thanks, doctrine and Mew.:) Hope you feel better soon, Mew.

Ahk, I'll be fine. :) That was what I meant though when I said to Brycie that she doesn't know me at all when I got the comment about having no idea what OP's DW has been through. I haven't been through IVF but have been through a lot of other things and would still never try and force DP to have a vasectomy against his wishes. I might ask him but if he said no I would get an Essure.

Op, quite reasonably, suggested getting thro 6 condoms first before him having to undergo an operation, hardly pushy or demanding!!

He is not contemplating using them on his own. He wants his wife to let him use them with her and she has said no way. Not once but 6 times. How is this not pushy or demanding? What part of 'No' does he not understand and why can't other women understand that 'No' either?

The 6 condom thing is not the red herring many would like it to be. It was a major part of ALD's OP. Never mind the possible MH issues. Never mind the terrible relationship problems. He wanted to get it, 6 times to teach her a lesson? To establish that her priorities are in the right place (i.e. a sexual relationship with him) regardless of what she may be going through it is plainly obvious to me anyway that this woman has some sort of serious problem and that needs to be addressed. It is highly likely that ALD's lack of regular sex is not the most pressing issue here.

Even now, the description of the restaurant meal disaster is related from a poor me pov when there is a strong suggestion from the story that this woman is going through some sort of MH issue, possibly PND, but who knows.

To look at it from the pov that sex is the problem here is to miss the point.

It is not against his wishes to have a vasectomy.

He is willing to do it after 6 condoms have been used up inside his wife's body.

That is plain and clear from his OP. He is not being dragged kicking and screaming to the hospital for an operation he does not want. He is just too stubborn to have it on anyone's terms but his own and apparently does not see the point or reasonableness of his wife's objection.

If there is even the most infinitessimal chance of a pregnancy resulting from sex (and condoms are not 100% effective) then he has absolutely no right to ask his wife to use even one let alone six.

It should be on his terms, it is his body that will be altered. A condom isn't going to permenantly alter his DW's body, this pretty unneeded op is going to change the OPs.

Would you be sterilised to suit your partner even if you weren't intimate? OP has said even a cuddle would be nice, this obviously isn't completely about sex she just seems to not want to be with him and if that's the case then why should he have an operation that could affect his ability to start again with someone else if his marriage fails?

To ask someone to do this in a failing marriage is completely selfish, she obviously has no respect for how he feels about his body and that matters as much as how she feels about hers.

And as has already been pointed out, even if he had the vasectomy he would have to ejaculate 30 times for it to work, if she wont even think about a condom is OP going to be made to masturbate all that? What if he doesn't enjoy that or isn't comfortable with that?

There's a lot OP is being asked to do here that seems far worse than suggesting getting through a pack of 6 condoms. a Vasectomy also isn't 100% effective either, they can fail as well.

When his terms involve someone else's body and the possibility of pregnancy then no, his terms are unreasonable and profoundly disrespectful.

What if his terms involved his wife eating something she found disgusting? What if his terms involved anal sex and she didn't like that?

A failed condom has the chance of permanently altering the wife's life.

But her terms involve him permenantly altering his body and his life as well. Why is it so different for one and not the other.

Totally confused why her body matters more than his.

"What if his terms involved anal sex and she didn't like that? " I don't think anyone likes surgery so, yet again why different for one person and not the other?

And again, he doesn't have any objection to having the vasectomy, Schrodingers.
He doesn't feel his body is being violated.
He has no objection in principle to the permanent change.

He wants to do something involving his wife's body first, an intimate act under conditions that she refuses to contemplate as is her right. To continue to insist even though he has no objection to the operation his wife has asked him to have is an indication of a profound lack of respect for his wife's bodily integrity, her right to say no to unwanted sex (no matter what the reason a woman has the absolute right to say no to sex).

It is like the troll under the bridge playing some sort of game as someone said upthread.

I would bet my bottom dollar that a person who posted a sincere OP where he couldn't see how wrong it is to try to insist on sex with a woman under conditions she was not willing to countenance has put his big foot in it in a major way in a myriad of other areas of their relationship outside of the bedroom too. Of course I am speculating, but really, if you have to be told that this 'sex 6 times on my terms' request ('before I do something I have no objection to anyway') was something many women found plenty wrong with, you are probably not the World's Best Husband.

He has no objection to the surgery, Schrodingers.

He has no objection to the details or to the principle of a vasectomy.

He wants to inflict sex on his terms on her first, possibly as some sort of payback or revenge upfront -- that is how it comes across.

He doesn't object to the change to his body or to the idea of not having any more children.

None of that is relevant.

He is willing to have the operation.

It boils down to his condition, and his condition involves a violation of his wife's dignity as a woman -- she must change her no to a yes and submit to sex on his terms first.

It came across to me more that he just wanted to make sure she actually wanted him to have this operation because she wanted to be intimate with him and not because she is trying to control him.

I don't understand why anyone would ask their DH to have this operation if she wont even give him a cuddle. :(

If I was in this position, I would want to know as well, I think the condom thing was obviously the only thing he could think of to try and test her feelings towards the relationship in a sexual manner. Yes, it does lack tact but seems he is more desperate to know where he truely stands rather than that he wants to force his Wife into sex, he has went 3 years already with the only time they were close, his DW pushing him off and telling him to finish himself off, that's pretty crude as well!

If there is any chance of the relationship failing and the OP wanting to start a family in the future then his chances of that shouldn't be ruined in a bid to prove himself to his DW who might decide anyway she still doesn't want to go near him.

I read it as if we have sex 6 times, then it's worth getting the vasectomy cos we have a sex life, not that you must give me sexlife in return for a vasectomy.

If they aren't having sex, what is the point of the vasectomy? Why should he put himself through invasive surgery when things are unlikely to change afterward.

I think this relationship is in deep trouble and the lack of intimacy is one small symptom of a whole lot of other stuff

But he's not forcing/violating her in any way, come on, poor guy! Why is this been seen by some as analogous to rape??
< genuinely bewildered emotcion>

"I read it as if we have sex 6 times, then it's worth getting the vasectomy cos we have a sex life, not that you must give me sexlife in return for a vasectomy."

That's what I was trying to say, just couldn't word it as well as that! :)

Sorry, that was to MA

It doesn't matter what his intentions are. The effect is that a woman must lie back and think of England while a condom is inserted into her body against her will.

How could she possibly enjoy that? How would she feel about that? How could he not care about how she feels about that?

How could he imagine that these 6 sessions would enhance their relationship on any score, sexual, emotional or whatever other elements a relationship might have?

Making someone participate in a sexual act against her will is not conducive to that warm post coital glow.

His lack of insight into how the relationship came to this sorry pass and his idea that sex 6 times with a condom would improve things are frankly bizarre -- the emotional illiteracy here is frightening.

Where on earth does he EVER say against her will????

Salbertina -- because he is contemplating inserting something into her body against her will.

He wants her to change her no to yes. He doesn't seem to care whether the yes is heartfelt or if she is saying yes just to get the 6 condoms used up so he will finally get the vasectomy. He doesn't seem to understand that his reasoning is therefore ridiculous -- sex 6 times will be an indication of absolutely nothing. He also doesn't seem to understand that persuading someone to do something as intimate as sex against her will can have emotional repercussions that could be the death knell of the relationship.

So, he has this operation not knowing if she wants an intimate relationship and DW decides then that she still doesn't want any intimacy and leaves him. He tries to start again and new partner would like a child but OP now having had the vasectomy to please his Wife cannot get her pregnant and a reversal fails. OP's new partner leaves because she really wants a child.

What then? Chalk it up to experience?

She doesn't want the condoms. She has made it clear that she doesn't want sex with a condom.

So her reasoning of asking him to have a vasectomy in a completely non-emotional and sexless marriage is anything but ridiculous?

And he's made it clear he doesn't want the operation unless he knows there is a point to it.

If it really bothered her she could have permanant contraception herself.