Parents trying to foist sibling onto me

[TralalaTralalee]

My sister is disabled and has never lived independently from our parents. I don’t get on with her (partly we’re just very different people, partly I find her weirdly intrusive and manipulative). There is no chance that I would ever become her carer, allow her to live with me, or take on responsibility for her care.

Now that our parents are ageing I’ve started offering to help them more, but often what they want help with is actually things for my sister - they have always done everything for her/wrapped her up in cotton wool, but I believe she is capable of doing these things for herself (or at least could do with support, and is eligible for help from local services to give her that support).

I feel like I’m going around in circles with them: they know I’m not close to my sister, I’ve said I’m not willing to help her with anything she can do for herself, I’ve said she must become more independent. But it’s still constant requests to do things for her and every time I say no they are upset.

Has anybody been through similar? Do I just keep saying no over and over?

Well capable of quickly thinking on his feet then?
Let him off, he'll figure it out.
I really hope you find your anger for the years you have lost been relentlessly used by them, even when your children were very young.

Gosh he was quick off the mark!

I suspect he’d been thinking about it for a while actually, the last few months they’ve been asking me for more and more and I’ve been saying no more and more, so he would have wanted an additional helper to do all the things I was refusing to. Sending the email has forced the issue a bit, but it was probably his plan already.

I know myself over the years I have been a bit of a mug when it came to helping a particular family member. The moment they tried to take advantage of my children’s kindness it was like the blinkers came off - they were lazy and manipulative, not in the dire need they portrayed. The idea that they would limit another generation is horrifying and just shows how selfish people can be. I only help in a genuine emergency now - if it hasn’t involved blue lights or a hospital I’m out.

Wow op this thread is a real eye opener. I have a DB with serious mental health issues and I'm just coming round to the emotional manipulation. I really like the broken record approach as well.

@llizzie I organise my own carers, and pay them, and if the OP is able to help persuade her parents and sister to do the same, that is all she needs to do. If they don't like the idea, then they are on their own.

You say "all" she needs to do, but the OP has spent many years trying to persuade them to get outside help and they have rejected any suggestions and refused to even consider it. So she's now at the stage you suggested yourself - she's leaving them on their own.

That's so so sneaky of them to try and lure your niece into their home like that. 🤬 I'm glad she was quickly advised not to.

I wonder who they will try it on with next! If you've any other female relatives no matter how distant I'd give them a heads up. 🙄🤦

I had a boss whose two daughters trained as nurses. Their parents suggested that they apply for training in the city where their grandparents lived...so much cheaper.

Yup. They finished up being their grandparents' carers.

How many years have you spent trying to set up a care package for your sister without success, please?

I suspect that at the root of the problems, not only the OP but the posters who have said they have difficulty persuading their loved ones to seek other help.

Some people think if relatives help it is free. They should be disabused of that.

The fact that the news constantly tells us that there are not enough carers, that social services are over burdened may give the impression that it is impossible to find help. It isn't. People are very willing to care in the community if they are paid properly. I pay £25 an hour for some years and it encourages people to help. Agencies charge between £20=£30 an hour and pay minimum wage to carers and overwork them. To pay such a small amount for someone who has the client's life in their hands is wrong, in my book, anyway.

You must be prepared to pay what care workers are worth. It means giving up a lot of other things, but you cannot force a relative's had to give help free.

Once a care worker is found, there should not be a need for any relative to work, unless they are paid the right money.
It is shocking that so many children get home from school to care for parents. If the parents are getting PIP it should be given to whoever is doing the work - yes, even children.
Not wanting to pay for help is the main reason why relatives are called upon. I will repeat again, that yes, someone in the family should help to find a care worker if they cannot do that, but this attitude that family members don't have to be paid is very common, and the main reason why people who need care do not have it.

People do not have to go through agencies. I used to, until I found out how much the agency was paying them. Now I look for people privately. I pay them what agencies are charging clients. It is not difficult to find people if you pay them well. They are usually the carers who are efficient, because they have many clients, and any difficulty finding them is down to their popularity.

Don't be afraid of having immigrant carers. They have to have permits to work, and they should have a certificate saying they have not committed a crime. You can search online for their driving record, and make sure they are insured for taking clients to appointments.

I am not going to say what has happened to clients who are controlled by social services - and yes, that is the right word to use.

Personally, my disabilities are rare and complex, and I usually like to train someone if I can tell their dedication. Since 2019 I have had three carers, including the present one who has been with me just a month, and has done so much to help with the terrible flooding. I still have visits from the 2019 carer who was diagnosed with terminal cancer last year. He visits and we talk. When he was diagnosed last year I found another carer right away. If you treat your carer properly, they will stay for years.

They bring with them in essence which you can never get from bossy siblings. I would be horrified if my siblings descended on me and took away my independence.
I suspect that the disabled DC probably feels the same, because she is not emotionally/mentally disabled.

If you disagree, just say so nicely. Please do not give me the sort of stuff I am getting from posters who don't have anything to suggest except cause unhappiness.

When people control others they hold an incredible power. Rather than reflect on the reasons for their need to control (their fears), they will want to reattach the strings and regain power.

I'd look at changing your phone number sooner rather than later and having a significant period of time where, even if there is an 'emergency', someone else is the first point of contact. Your siblings should arrange this, but may struggle with this as none of them want to be your sister's PA for everything in her life to please her either.

Are the references to 'mental health' to manipulate you into thinking she'll come to harm if you don't relent and please her?

All the things you say are religious are, in fact commonly used today. You don't like them for the reason that you are an atheist.

I don't like people throwing Bible quotes at me as though they're imparting some higher knowledge. I know the principles are commonly used today. The ones that are used today are used because they're sound principles or common sense, not because they're some ancient Christian knowledge.

I wish I knew why people put themselves above all else, then make a mess of their lives, or prefer to pull people to pieces whenever they get the chance.

This is exactly what I'm getting at - the arrogance to assume that non-religious people put themselves above all else and make a mess of their lives. My life is going just fine thanks, and I live incredibly selflessly.

OP has been putting others above her self and it's caused her misery.

Nobody was 'pulling anybody to pieces' on this thread until you started trying to police what advice should and shouldn't be given.

I studied scripture, for years which showed me how much of what is written is still in use today. The laws of Britain are based on the commandments. Have you ever heard the expression about the weather ''red sky at night, shepherds' delight; red sky in the morning, shepherd's warning''? It is commonly said. Jesus taught us that. Have you used ''as per''... another from the Old Testament.

'As per' is latin. Lots of words appear in the Bible, that's how books work.

Jesus didn't teach 'us' anything. "Red sky at night..." was a rule of thumb used by sailors and farmers to predict the weather. That it somehow ended up in a book attributed to a person who may or may not have lived in some form holds no relevance. It's an observable phenomenon based on air pressure.

I'm aware that the Bible had a huge impact on early culture/society in many places, but modern laws are not 'based' on it. Most of the ones with outdated religious connotations are being changed and updated. Countries without Christianity all managed to work out that killing and stealing is wrong, because it's obvious.

Genuinely good people have the intelligence and freedom to develop their own ethics, and behave as they chose because they choose; not because they think they'll be rewarded with paradise or condemned to damnation.

The point is that in the past people knew the Bible more, and the teachings became a way of life. You cannot deny them just because you are a humanist -or whatever you are - just because you lose an argument.

I don't deny that more people lived their lives according to the Bible in the past. But the reason they did so was because they had no other option or information available to them. They didn't have the freedom to think for themselves, either due to physical threat or social pressure.

We did a lot of things in the past because we didn't know better. We're not in the past anymore.

So again, your advice to the OP is not my issue, your insistence that its religious basis gives it some moral authority and that other viewpoints are harmful, is offensive to me and any intelligent person.

Anything good in life now is subjected to abuse from people who are determined to undermine others, especially anonymously.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. What good thing has been subject to abuse in this thread?

You're on a forum where people ask for advice and opinions from strangers. If you post yours here, you accept that people may disagree with it and tell you so. That is not 'subjecting you to abuse', if that's what you're implying?

Your advice seems objectively terrible, and would place the OP in the precise position that has already made her life miserable, and that she specifically wants to avoid.

You then dress it up in your religion, patronizingly suggesting that we've learned nothing from the bible. And finally, you lecture others on what they should and shouldn't say.

Your advice was bad, but your attitude is the issue.

Why would you set out to make people unhappy?

Who on earth are you suggesting I've set out to make unhappy? The OP, by giving what seems to be the consensus advice? Advice that I feel has the absolute best chance of making her happy?

Your advice is based on the fact that your faith insists on obedience to one's parents no matter what. That situation is objectively causing the OP distress and people have rightly pointed that out.

Are you suggesting I set out to make you unhappy? You've been patronising and arrogant in this thread, and when you tried it with me and a few others I saw you got called out. That's on you, unfortunately. I didn't 'set out' to do anything but chime in on OPs dilemma.

Freedom of speech does not mean that you can cause distress just for the fun of it.

You seem to be fixated this vague accusation that someone is deliberately causing distress. You haven't said exactly who you're referring to, exactly what that person has done to cause distress, and to whom.

What do you mean? And what does 'freedom of speech' have to do with it? We're on a forum with rules, as long as people don't break them they can say what they want.

If the advice, opinions and difference of opinions here are causing you distress, just log off.

@Enough4me yes absolutely - her mental health is only a problem when she’s not getting what she wants. She’s only “suffering from anxiety” when she doesn’t want to do something. To an extent I think that she is interpreting normal feelings as anxiety - like maybe sometimes I feel overwhelmed or stressed out about a difficult task, but she seems to interpret those kind of feelings as unmanageable anxiety that only affects her and nobody else, does that make sense? So I think it’s partly attempted manipulation and partly she’s been allowed/encouraged to stop trying whenever things are hard.

@llizzie - she has no intellectual disability or learning disability. She claims to have anxiety issues but refuses all treatment and I do not believe it is real clinical anxiety. I do not have any control over her life, control of her finances, or authority to do anything without her consent. She is an adult woman who has a degree and is fully capable of using the internet and making phone calls.

I just wanted to be sure we’re really clear on that before answering your question about what steps I’ve taken to “arrange a care package”. Obviously I have never tried to hire carers for her, how could I?

I remember the first time I commented that she would need carers when she’s older - I’d have been mid teens so she was probably 5 or 6. My parents reacted really angrily, no question that they would allow strangers to look after her. I brought it up again when they were pressuring me to come home from university on weekends so that they could have a break, and again when I took my first proper job and they wanted me to use all of my annual leave to give them respite, and again many many times over the years.

I’m now in my 40s and she’s in her 30s, so I’ve been raising this for about 30 years and they have never agreed to actually do it.

Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind. This is the case here. They cannot see the consequences of their decisions until said consequences actually manifest.

Once you stop acting they will have to get carers. The new normal will be accepted and everyone will be happier.

It will get worse before it gets better in the interim but that is a necessary part of the process.

@TralalaTralalee I think you have handed this difficult sutuation really well, as have your DH, DBs and SILs. It's actually great to read about siblings being supportive and understanding of you and not throwing you under the bus to save them the responsibility.

Your point about previously wanting your parents to understand your logic and agree with you really resonated with me. I think I have been guilty of that too and it's made me think.

I hope it all works out for all of you.

You mean how many years have the OPs parents been trying? Its not on the OP to do so.

Honestly I think for a long time they were happy to feel that my sister was being looked after by me and our parents, and that did absolve them of feeling responsible.

This has been brewing for a long time, and over the last few months I’ve been refusing to help more and more, my parents have been complaining about it to my brothers, and I’ve been responding to my brothers making clear quite how much I do. They now say they didn’t realise how bad it was - honestly I think they chose not to think about it. But I think they’ve had an “oh shit!” moment of realising that they’re next on the hook if they don’t step in before I crash out entirely!

Reading your updates @TralalaTralalee I feel so sorry for you. It’s hard to believe that any decent parent would be haranguing their DD to come back from uni and sacrifice their holidays to support a younger sibling. It’s as if they don’t see you as a person in your own right.This is all so ingrained you will have to be incredibly strong to remain detached from it, but your DPs and Dsis need to sort out care for their own sakes.

Absolutely! @llizzie NONE of your guilt tripping 'advice' is for @TralalaTralalee to take in, her parents and in most importance her sister have mental capacity and ability to source and manage carers. Why on earth should op add this to all she does, such as checking the drivers licences of carers!

💯
What a position your parents have put you in here 😡All you want to do is be a normal loving supportive daughter , but instead, nothing less than being a full on carer is good enough for them.

It's not relevant. It shouldn't take years of trying before the OP is permitted to step back for her own mental health. And it's the parents' responsibility to ensure adequate provision for their own child, not the OP's. If the parents are neglecting to do this, the sister will not lift a finger for herself despite having the capacity to do so, and refuses to engage with even the idea of having caregivers who are not family, what can the OP even do here?

I've had this with a grandparent recently - full capacity but refused all outside help. The only thing family could do was refuse to provide a level of care we were not physically equipped or in a position to do. It is beyond selfish for someone to manipulate a situation where others are forced into meeting their needs without ever asking their consent.

I used to think that I would be responsible for my parents in their old age. They were similar to yours in their mindset that 'a good daughter would...' and treated me like a child until I eventually cut contact with them.
The tipping point for me was when a clinical psychologist treating me for the effect of childhood trauma, amongst other things, asked why I still had my parents in my life and my response was because I'll need to look after them when they're old. She told me straight that it was not my job and that was what social services are for. I am passing on that advice to you.
I think the next time your parents or sister contact you, especially if they crack on it's an emergency, you should raise a welfare concern with their GP and/or social services. If I ever get a phone call, that's going to be my response. It's made easier as I moved to another country so am not on hand. For you, have a separate number for your parents - different SIM card that you can pick up in the supermarket - and block them on your main one.
Stay strong and make sure your brothers and sisters-in-law are equally strong - hold each other close through this so none of you crack under the pressure.

Or perhaps they understood that it wasn’t their responsibility. You feeling obliged did not mean they were required to step in you provide care for your sister, or to save you from yourself. You had and have to be the one to make the decision to either step in or step away yourself.

I don’t think they’re supporting you now because they’ll be on the hook if you crash out. They’re not on the hook at all, any more than you are. It really is as simple as refusing, even though it may not feel simple because of how they’ve conditioned you. The guilt you feel when you stand up to them? The desire to be conciliatory? They’re traps. You’re not making anything better by allowing yourself to be controlled by either of those things, you’re just playing right into the hands of your parents and your sister.

Imo they’re supporting you now because you’re asking for support for yourself, not for support to enable your parents and sister.

Someone had a go at me, telling me that the OP had been ''trying for years''. At that time there was nothing in the OPs posts which told me that, so I asked her.