Dad 89 won't listen, health failing, lies to people

[paulfoel]

He tells me he can't cope. Says the same to my brother (we don't speak long story).

I got social services to visit and he told them the opposite. Hes fine.

Yesterday, got a call from the Lifeline people he'd fallen over. I drove over my brother was there also (first time I'd spoken in 2 years). Turns out Dad has fallen 4-5 times recently and called my brother. Didn't tell me.

I'm furious, hes lying to everyone. No idea what hes playing up.

I've told him 100 times I cannot pick him up off the floor anyway. (I've got back problems, got blue badge for it).

Every time its always "my sons will do it". Hes refused carers in the past. He just will not get it out of his head that we can't do everything for him.

To be honest, hes better off in a nice residential home. BUT hes stubborn about that.

Hes got almost £50K in the bank but obsessive about not spending any of it.

From what I understand, I can't force anything, even if his stupid decisions are causing problems for himself. Whether hes mentally capable is borderline at the moment I'd say.

Any suggestions/recommendations?

In a way I can see they're under pressure - last thing they want is someone fannying around like my Dad but still.....

Thanks Uricorn - yes I heard they use some inflatable thing. Good idea I suppose.

Lifeline were a bit crap that day. All they said was hes pressed the bottom, don't know whats wrong with him ,can't get any sense, we've called an ambulance, they said it'd be hours, end of conversation. I even asked for the number so I could phone the ambulnce people.

Not only did the lady display a complete lack of any geographical knowledge (Dad was 10 miles from where she was in the biggest town around there) but even thought he was in completely different part of Wales 100 miles away. When I got the number off her she gave me the health professionals helpline (for doctors/nurses only) so that was no good.

Honestly @paulfoel they will be used to people fannying around/being reluctant to accept care and they certainly won't be looking for work, but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

It's very difficult to get people who retain a good level of capacity (and reluctance to spend £££) to accept help and it can take time and a lot of effort, but the alternative isn't OK. I have some knowledge of these sort of communities, where there is an expectation that "family will do it", predicated on the past where half that family lived a 2 minute walk away. This is dying out slowly, but still a factor.

Another thought re GP is asking for an older persons health visitor/visiting team member/District Nurse (apprised in advance of the facts or with one of you present) to call, possibly on the pretext of an over 75s health check. They being recognised medical professionals are sometimes listened to in a way social workers and offspring aren't.

He won’t be the only one that’s difficult. They must deal with stuff like this all the time.

We were fortunate and our mother was already in a residential home who in fact made the suggestion of a nursing home. But get everyone family, GP to sing from the one hymn sheet.

Well latest update is SS are going back to see him today. Didn't think they would but fair play to them.

EVERY phonecall I get off him now he tells me how much hes "struggling". Went to see him last night and told him he needed to be honest to SS, and tell THEM hes struggling not me.

We'll see. Worryingly, when I tried to explain that there may be a "cost" involved he changed his attitude. He also then started to pre-empt things a bit with thing like "well what can the carers do?" "what time will they visit?"

Always does this. Gets excuses in early. I just told him to wait and see what the SS lady says. I don't know.

I sort of know how its going to go though. It won't happen because he'll just kick off and cancel it again. Thats Dad all over- if the world doesn't work how he thinks it should work, then he just sticks his head in the sand until it does.

I've told him if he does that and doesn't listen to advice hes on his own and has to deal with the consequences. I honestly do not care any more if I'm honest.

Best one was when he said "Well Im still clean and tidy and look after the place". No Dad its filthy dirty, you don't wash enough and its humming in here......

When we had such a visit for our relative, the social security person went straight to the fridge and the mouldy food told them what they needed to know

Well, SS have talked him into a carer in the morning and in the evening. Progress I suppose.

Only problem is after 6 weeks its means tested with a payment of max of £100 a week (which I thought was pretty good to be honest).

The lady from SS said that Dad got a bit panicky when she mentioned this. Thats him all over. Thousands of £s in the bank but not willing to spend even a £.

I can see whats going to happen because we've been there before. He'll moan the carers don't come when he wants (he insists its 9am sharp or nothing - he does not listen when I tell him not everyone can have 9am), then when they mention £ that'll be it. Or he'll behave badly (in the past hes got funny because the carer wasn't white - yeh really!) or he'll annoy them so much (he began having a right go at the carer - who just goes where they're told at what time - about the 9am thing) that they'll terminate it anyway.

Wish me luck....

I've decided though if this happens then nothing I'm going to do will change. Same visits, same phone calls - I am NOT bailing him out. He'll have to struggle on his own, probably fall again in his house, and learn the hard way.

Harsh maybe but I've done my best now.

@paulfoel You have done a lot more than your best. Time to let him feel the consequences of his actions.

I can not get DM to agree to a stairlift despite the fact she is a massive fall risk.

Very bad physically , bad mobility issues yet wont have a stairlift put in , cant hear yet refuses to even countenance a hearing aid. Cant get in and out of the bath yet doesnt want to explore changes to the bathroom (its too small and there is a wall between the toilet and the rest of the bathroom) Back in the 80s my dad (builder) wanted to knock the wall down between the toilet and the bathroom, DM objected with the "what if someone wants to go to the loo while someone is in the bath"
Forty years later she has physical problems and limited mobility and there is no turning circle for a hoist because the bathroom is too small Sits there crying in pain but refuses to go to see a doctor. Appointments have been booked but then she cancels at the last minute because she doesnt want to go She walks downstairs backwards really slowly. Awful to watch. Asked me at Christmas to book a mobile hairdresser for a haircut in the spring then changed her mind again. Broke her hip in Sept 2022 and ended up in hospital but even that didnt change anything

Shes not like your dad in attitude (no offence meant) but its bloody frustrating so i do get it

Thanks Jennifer - sadly I don't think it will make any difference though.
Dads always been like this - its always someone elses fault, woe is me, life is so unfair, its the governments fault blah blah blah. Dads always been the one to sit back and let things happen to him and make no effort himself.

I know already what will happen like I said. It'll get so bad, he'll end up in hospital, he'll try to get my brother or I to look after him on a full time basis and it'll only change when someone forces him.

I know hes my Dad and, of course, I want him to be around. BUT, I believe everyones time is up when its up. I just hope Dads time being up comes BEFORE hes got a long illness/in hospital etc. i.e. I hope he just goes one day.

I posted earlier describing similar problems with my Uncle who was found dead in front of his tv - and I think pp said this wasn't the worst way to go and tbh I agree.

He was worried about being forced into a home - even though I told him he could have carers/cleaners at home, he didn't want that. Like your dad he had plenty of money in the bank but he just didn't want to spend it - always lived very frugally. Wouldn't see the doctor - told lies about having check ups.

Anyway, his gp said to me that really it worked for him as doing what he did let him live independently (if in squalor) to the age of 89. He didn't go in a home, he didn't have carers, he didn't go into hospital, he didn't see the doctor and he died at home in front of the TV in his slippers. OK his house was a midden and he was very dirty and unkempt, but obviously these things didn't bother him and he got what he wanted - well actually I think he would have liked to have made it to 90 (missed by a month) but all in all I think he would think this was the best outcome for him, and I think the same might be true about your dad.

I think the laissez faire attitude is your best friend now - he has been offered care, it is up to him to take it - or not, it's called having capacity.

Yes I see what you mean. I also hope thats the way Dad goes.....

I am concerned that he will bury his head in the sand, get worse and worse, struggle more and more and not do anything about it.

Yes if hes happy crack on as you are but the problem is hes not happy at all. If he was then I'd leave him alone. I just can't comprehend how you can have money in the bank and struggle as you get older - surely thats what its for?

Not a lot else I can do though because, as you say, hes been judged to have capacity.

Can you ask him why hanging on to that money is important to him? If it’s been hoarded for a rainy day, can you convince him that it’s metaphorically pouring down?

Oh asked many times.....

Because he was poor when he was younger and he doesn't want to waste it now hes got it and he wants to leave some money for my brother and I.

Its just crazy. Yes we do come very poor mining family but that was 70+ years ago. And I've told him many times I don't need him to leave me anything at all.

Problem is hes obsessed with money even though hes got zero idea how much things cost in the real world. He goes through his bank statement with a fine tooth comb and often asks me to phone the bank because he thinks its £2 out. "NO".

I remember him once asking how much I paid for childcare once. Stupidly I told him and he said "thats a day? you must be mad I thought that was per week". No Dad no-one looks after your child for £1 an hour.

Of course no childcare = no go to work but that never seems to twig with him. Its all about NOT spending money.

This £100 a week for social care in his head is a FORTUNE. Again, he thinks someone would visit him and get paid £2 a visit or something.

To be honest, he doesnt spend his pension. He could afford £400 a month easily without touching his savings. I pointed out to him even if he used his savings it would last 8 years....

Its going to be a fight. IF he agrees to pay I know what will happen though. He'll get even tighter and will go without things because he won't touch those savings no matter what.

Well this is a bit of an escalation - see my other (unrelated) thread its been a bit of a weekend.

Had a call from brothers wife about 1pm yesterday. Dad had "fallen" again and brother was there waiting for ambulance. He told me "get up here". Wife in work I had my 10 year old to look after. Tried wife (she works for the ambulance service so you can imagine how busy) they really couldnt let her go home early, couldnt get hold of MIL.

So I'm thinking hes there, ambulance on the way, nothing I can add. Suspected it was another fake one anyway (yep I was right).

Told brother I'll have to come up much later. I then had threats, abuse, all sorts and told me I was now permanently cut off and if he ever saw me up Dads again he would sort me out.

In the end, I text him and said well since you're threatening me you've stopped me from visiting Dad today because of this. I've blocked him now.

Its probably 3rd time hes done this to me. Threats the lot, last time he even threatened my wife. I told Dad last time Id phone the police if he did it again, but Dad, as always swept it under the carpet. He wants both of us on the hook so wont upset either one of us I think.

Anyway, went to hospital, home again. Another fake. Thats probably 15 in the last year or so.

I've had it now. I'm going to tell Dad I'm not able to visit him until I stop getting threats from my brother. He can't stand by the side and let this happen but he is.

I can just imagine if I went up Dad and he turned up. I know him, hes had problems before with fighting in pubs, so I KNOW he'd start something.

Yeh I know Dads in the middle her but his fake behaviour as well, hes got to do something.

Advice? Would you do the same i.e. refuse to visit?

Anyone know anything about restraining orders? It is possible to get something from a solicitor? More to focus attention more than anything because I know if I do nothing Dad will sweep it under the carpet as he always does.

See my other thread I've had a weekend of being threatened by people!
I think they should film my life as a new sitcom 😫

You made the right decision not to go immediately if your dad had a member of the family with him, the ambulance was on the way and it was clearly not a situation where your dads life was in danger. I’d say that even if your wife was at home and you didn’t have your child to consider. It’s normal in that situation to be asked to be kept up to date and make preparations so you can go if needed later on.

I’ve not seen your other thread. But it seems unfair on the face of it to penalise your dad for the actions of your brother. Would your brother listen to your dad if he told him to knock it off? Is your dad himself in danger at all from your brother? However if your dad is actively encouraging this situation and enjoying the drama then stepping away is best, and you can leave them to it.

From what you've said in some ways he is able to look after himself. He does the business when SS are due to visit. Sprays house, cleans himself up nicely, washes etc. So he is capable of managing which is what they see.
It's difficult for you - you leave him after a fall and call an ambulance and he could be there for hours and the worst case scenario happens. No advice just sympathy.

Dad at no point has told brother to knock it off even though I asked him to last time. That's the issue. He won't upset brother because hes a valuable resource and he likes to have us both on the hook separately.

Dad is in no danger from him. If I was there, he'd start a fight with me in front of Dad no doubt. That wouldn't do anyone any good at all of course.

I just think hang on Dad you need to put a stop to this or I'm not visiting if its unsafe for me.

Yep it was another fake call this time.

This has all happened because I sort of forced him to agree to carers. This is his protest now.

Seen it 100 times before.

Bit of background - Dad has previously been semi-banned from calling an ambulance in the past. And his GP has also banned him calling doctors out for home visits.

If I had to count the number of times hes "had a fall", gone to hospital, they'd given him the once over and sent him home SAME DAY it'd be close to triple figures by now. If hes bored, stressed or whatever, ambulance it is - Im sure he likes just getting us all running around for him.

My brothers opinion is I should drop EVERYTHING and come running every time. Bit easier when you're a mile away (Im 25 miles away) and got no kids you're responsible for.

Leave them to it then. Your brother has inadvertently solved your problem with your dad!

@funnelfan One way to think about it lol.

Turns out hes still in hospital as a "precaution". I spoke to hospital this am and explained it might be problematic if I visited and my brother was there too. I know he would start something.

Not sure what to do now. I might visit but not go in until I'm sure brothers not there.

Either way, I know hes in hospital, but I've asked the nurse to explain the situation and I'm not abandoning I just dont want trouble is the hospital.

Yep it was another fake call this time. Are you suggesting the fall didn’t happen?