Dad 89 won't listen, health failing, lies to people

[paulfoel]

He tells me he can't cope. Says the same to my brother (we don't speak long story).

I got social services to visit and he told them the opposite. Hes fine.

Yesterday, got a call from the Lifeline people he'd fallen over. I drove over my brother was there also (first time I'd spoken in 2 years). Turns out Dad has fallen 4-5 times recently and called my brother. Didn't tell me.

I'm furious, hes lying to everyone. No idea what hes playing up.

I've told him 100 times I cannot pick him up off the floor anyway. (I've got back problems, got blue badge for it).

Every time its always "my sons will do it". Hes refused carers in the past. He just will not get it out of his head that we can't do everything for him.

To be honest, hes better off in a nice residential home. BUT hes stubborn about that.

Hes got almost £50K in the bank but obsessive about not spending any of it.

From what I understand, I can't force anything, even if his stupid decisions are causing problems for himself. Whether hes mentally capable is borderline at the moment I'd say.

Any suggestions/recommendations?

Just to say that dying in your own house in front of the TV is very, very far from the worst outcome.

A knowing laugh is always good when outsiders presume to know your business and what you should do.

You can't do that without his consent though? He will just say no.

I guess if you can gang up and talk someone round thats one thing but hes a master at this and he'll say NO point blank.

Yeh know what you mean.....

Yeh know what you mean. In one ear and out the other with him I'm afraid. Like I said hes said more than once "you need to put me first". What do you say to that? I remember one Xmas he was in hospital and he said to me "be here 9am to visit". I think my son was 4-5 years old at the time, so I said well it'll be later let me open presents etc and I'll be over as soon as. His reply "there'll be other xmases for that - remember I'm first". (I got there 11am and he went ballistic, it was nearly a 30 second xmas day visit).

I still remember his cousin. Nice fella few years younger than my Dad. He was lovely BUT he had this idea that I had to look after Dad better. Dad then latched onto him to give him lifts, push him around is his wheelchair etc. (thats Dads MO and reason why hes lost friends, neighbours ignore him etc). In the end, he got sick of it too and realised what Dad was like.

I remember my Gran. She passed away in her 90s. This was 30+ years ago, I was in my 20s. I remember Dad complaining because I think she was a handful. Think Dads sister got the worse of it though..... I still remember Dad saying to me "If I ever get like that when I'm old just shoot me!" Bang Bang Bang! lol.

I can honestly say now though, Dad doesn't care about me, my wellbeing, my family, my kids or anything. He really doesn't. His life is just TOTALLY focused on the fact that hes old and SOMEONE had better step up look after him.

I've got back problems (I've got a blue badge). Dad knows this. He doesn't care (yep he still calls me to pick him up off the floor!). The ONLY time hes ever asked how I am you can tell its only because what he really wants to know is how long his "resource" (i.e. me) is going to unavailable to do his bidding. Its so obvious by the things he asks about it.

Sounds like you need to just walk away. Easier said than done. I suspect there are a lot of elderly people with impaired cognition but are holding it together just enough to keep social services away. Add that to a curmudgeonly personality and bloody hell it's hard.

It's not legally or practically possible to gang up on anyone and put them anywhere unless they are 1. Without capacity to make their own decision on where to live and 2. The move is assessed to be in their best interests.

I'm not going to say that number 2. is always done perfectly - it definitely isn't - and assessment for number 1. isn't always great either. But they'll at least try.

Honestly there's such a gap in the market for therapy for people in your situation @paulfoel. As for a response to 'you need to put me first', well at least the selfish old bastard (sorry) isn't passive-aggressive. Why bother when you can just be aggressive??

Is there an argument for just having a good old banter on the phone? 'No I'm not going to do that. You are funny Dad. What did your last slave die of then? Oh yes that was Mum. Well, how are you going to fix that then, since i can't come over?' kind of stuff? Watch a Carry-On movie and channel that vibe?

Ha ha - oh hes got many tools in his armoury. Aggressive, Passive Aggressive, Guilt Tripping the lot....

Whatever he thinks he can get away with. Hes VERY clever too. He will push and push, then when it goes too far he'll back off for 2-3 days (thats all!) then start again.

I'll be honest, I think hes got a personality disorder too. Hes worse now but when I look back I can see hes been like this for 30+ years. He manages to upset everyone by some means or other - its uncanny.

Deffo gap in the market - I need therapy!

You can’t do that if he still has capacity. And nor should you be able to.

I think the saddest thing about it is when Dad does go I'm not going to have nice memories of his last few years. Hes treated me so badly its been an awful experience if I'm honest. Even the times I've taken him out its been awful (I could tell you stories of how he speaks to waiters etc in restaurants - I refuse to take him any more).

Its just so sad. Sometimes I feel like I've spent the last 10 years or so mourning his death to be honest - its going to be a hollow feeling when he does go.

You see other grandparents doting on their grandchildren, having fun etc. He hasn't seen my 10 years old for probably 3 years and hes not bothered at all.
Yes he does say "bring her up at the weekend" but I know this is scam to get another visit so he can see ME not her at all. Its happened many times he'll talk to me and she'll sit in the corner and get ignored by him.

That makes me so sad.... (Of course, at the moment, my wife doesn't want me to take daughter to see him because of this. She has a point).

The more I have read what you say about him, I agree that he does seem to have some kind of personality disorder - well I'm not a doctor of course, but there's some kind of short circuit isn't there when someone says "I'm first" and thinks he should be more of a priority to his son than the son's own children. When he says "I come first" do you just ignore him, or do you say "No you don't, my children, quite rightly, come first." Does your brother have children too (sorry if I have missed this) and if so, does he say the same to him?

I didnt see my Father for around 6 years before he died and didnt go to the funeral or anything.
No regrets at all
I have managed to hold onto some nice memories of him from when I was much younger - he was an awful person but lots of fun and we had some amazing experiences due to his total lack of regard for safety or laws.
Its hard to imagine now but you may one day be able to look back on some things with at least amusement.

Your dad really does sound like my mum was when she was in the early stages of dementia, and it really isn't his fault that he's behaving like this. He is probably very scared about what is happening to him and is in denial, and it sounds like you are very angry and unsympathetic about what is happening to him.

I found it was very difficult to get my mum to accept any support and she flatly refused to have carers for a long time, but I was eventually able to get her to accept a 'befriender' once a week, and I gradually increased the visits. Every time an assessment was carried out by social services she said thst she was fine, and because she sounded coherent, they believed that there wasn't a problem. But she wasn't deliberately lying - it was what she really believed at the time, and there were times when I was with her thst I realised she was really scared of what was happening to her. I would never have called her decisions stupid or tried to coax her to go into a home against her wishes until things reached a complete crisis and she had a lengthy hospital stay when her dementia deteriorated dramatically.

To be honest, he doesn't care about my kids, his excuse is "but I need you". As if my kids don't. Not sure if I mentioned on this thread my oldest (hes 21 now) has Aspergers. We had a rough time with him, he'd get violent etc. It was awful. I had a lot to deal with, couldnt leave him home alone etc. Dads response "well they didn't have that in my day, give him a slap across the head to sort his behaviour out". You can imagine... These days I don't even bother explaining or arguing I just ignore what he says....

Its funny about my brother because my Dad identifies with him not me at all. Both worked in manual jobs (I'm IT consultant). Both have this idea that work comes first, you do whatever you're employer says because your lucky. Oh and the woman stays home with the kids and the husband is the boss. Very 1950s.

Brother has 3 kids, from 2 previous relationships. Doesn't bother to see them. Got caught by CSA for one of them - all I got from Dad was "the working man getting caught out again". (yeh I'm thinking you're kid, keep it in your trousers if you don't want to deal with). Was self-employed for a bit - failed to pay tax, spent it all down the pub, got caught got in real trouble. They let him off £10K owed but he had to pay £10K over a few years. Dad again "this government taking money off the working man again". Hang on the rest of us pay our tax so we don't end up like that!

One time the mother had alcohol "issues". Social phoned brother to take custody for a month and he said "no put her in a home". Dad agreed "well he can't do it hes got to go to work". I well remember that and thinking "what a bunch of scumbags my family are"

Its so embarrassing that my family are like off the TV programme SHAMELESS.
Don't me wrong, I was brought up council estate, same as my wife, and from a pretty depressed part of the UK but I just don't get how they are.

Of course, brother lives a mile away, married to someone else but no kids. I'm the bad one because I won't devote all my time to Dad (like he thinks brother does - he doesnt he lies to dad).

Lots of different things there to unpack, not all related to your Dad.
His behaviour obviously triggers a lot of things for you but hopefully stepping back will help

Hmmm - appreciate your comments here. Fair enough....

Is it dementia with my Dad? Maybe it is. Its difficult to say because he probably started off 30+ years being a little like he is now.

I know what you're saying about him being scared. I think you're right there.
Dad IS scared that hes going to be left with no-one. Which is crazy because I can say I've NEVER let him down. Problem is his behaviour makes if a self-fulfilling prophecy because like I said people avoid him now.

I would probably say the same as you before to be honest. Maybe its because I'm an older parent (Im mid 50s, 21 yr old son, 10 yr old daughter) that unlike most people maybe whos kids are older and they have time to deal with their own parents. I don't.

BUT, with the best will in the world, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a carer, and I've got other people who rely on me as well. These are facts.

I'm sorry but his decisions, at the moment assuming that what SS tell me hes of sound mind are stupid. And selfish if I'm honest. He fails to see how his bad decisions also affect me. My flipping blood pressure (yep on medication) is through the roof because hes decided not to listen to anyone.....

As others have advised me, enough is enough now.... I can do no more.

If this is affecting your blood pressure so it’s through the roof you need to put an end to this stress before it ends you. That’s the blunt reality. You shouldn’t be on medication just because of your dad and his demands. Tell him that you now have health issues of your own. Tell him you’ve seen the doctor, the elderly normally listen to that. Be less available. He won’t see how his bad decisions affect you until he can’t actually get a hold of you and his bad decisions affect him. I assume you use an answering machine to vet his calls? Answer half of them. Make a point of that. If he can’t get hold of you he will find another solution. No matter what you do it will never be enough, nor will it be appreciated. Tell your dad you have health problems of your own now so there has to be some changes. Repeat repeat repeat, don’t get into a discussion over it, dont stay on the phone too long, give yourself a time limit, don’t get deflected and if you do start weakening then is the time to recite all your own health issues. I bet he will get off the phone quick as he won’t be interested, it’s all about him and use that answering machine to screen calls. Bottom line, you don’t have to go over all the reasons why you can’t help him as much as he wants, you don’t need his permission or his agreement. You just tell him you have health issues of your own now, you’ve seen the doctor and if he wants more help he will need to get a carer. His choice. Be a broken record on this. I’m

Just wondering if you have tried age concern , or the admiral nurses ( no experience myself but have heard of them) or other help lines to see if they can give you any advice or support even if its just for yourself as a carer? Hope this weekend is peaceful and restful for you.

Trouble is even if myself or Dad was a billionaire he still won't pay for anything.
"When I was young we were poor so I don't want to waste money now"

In one ear and out the other...
I've told him probably 50 times that I cannot pick him up off the floor. Nope ignores me.
Last time I took him out, I warned him, be careful of my back, do not put all your weight on me or I will knacker my back and be off work. Of course, hes worse because I'm sure he wants to demonstrate how ill he is. Made little attempt to walk on his own, pretty much draped himself over me and expected me to drag him along. Was furious.

In his head, he is the illest person in the world, and no-one else can even be approaching as ill as he is. So if I've got health problems then they can't be as serious as his.
Prime example. Hospital transport. Dad can walk prob 10-15 yard, get into a car, mini bus with a little help. So I phoned them - yes no problem they take people in wheelchairs, even bedbound, oxygen tanks etc I guess they're used to it. Explained this to Dad but he still says hes "too ill" for the transport.

But yes its time now for me to take a step back..

You should have taken him home immediately when he draped himself on you like that after making your position clear to him. That would rile me big time being ignored like that, as if you dont matter. You should have done the dying swan act with him. For the hospital I would say to him ”well what are you going to do” and change the subject. My mum (prob said this before) had loads of hospital appts and app it was my job to take her regardless of what I was doing. Anyway we had a problem with the car and it needed a new steering wheel. We waited months to get the part from abroad. Her hospital appt was the same day and we were already booked into the garage. She asked me to cancel my appt and get one for the next day! As if getting a next day appt was that simple. I said we couldn’t take her and she said she would sort something out. The day before her appt she phoned and asked “well are you taking me”. She made no attempt to make other arrangements and thought she would guilt me into doing it. I didn’t take her. We were cancelling our appts left right and centre and had no control over our own life. She wasnt happy. This was a woman that would never go out of her way for me when she was younger. Have you tried the agingcare.com website? The advice there under “ask a question” is first rate. It’s not easy with parents like this. It can be in one ear and out the other with you as well. Yes sorry to hear that dad, must be difficult dad, what are you going to do, got to go bye!

He sound like a man that will always want what he sees you giving to others - this makes him value it. So he wants the time you give your family, it’s precious. If you actually did move in with him he would not put any value on it. I hope you know that.

Have you considered moving further away? Your relationship might even improve if you could only see him two or three times a year. I’m not joking.

All sounds very familiar. It all becomes "my" problem to sort out.
Yes the old guilt trip I know it well.
With the hospital thing, because hes a distance away, sometimes its physically impossible, because of my kids etc to be able to get there in time to take in. In one ear out the other - its my problem to sort out not his even if its impossible!

I'll have a look at agingcare.

Tell me about it. I'd rather sleep in my car than move in with him!

Part of the problem - Im medium distance away 30-40 mins drive. Enough to be a right PITA but still close enough he expects me to do it.

Australia sounds good to me.

Got to laugh he phoned me today.
"I've been thinking I might think about carers after all - can you ask social services to call in for a chat next week?"

OMG NO!!!!!! Hes not happy because I said they won't waste their time coming to see him again just because hes decided to tell the truth this time. (To be fair they were nice about it but thats what they said). I said best they might do is a phone call.....

"Oh no I don't want people phoning me". OK Bye Dad.

@paulfoel if he wants carers then he needs to arrange them with a private care agency , with 50k in the bank I doubt he will be eligible for subsidised care . All SS will do is give you a list of agencies to try .