Overheard my mother talking to my sister

[Thegreengreengrassofhomes]

Currently staying with DM (93). I have been living abroad for 12 years but we have been thinking about moving back home to be closer to DM & have been looking into schools etc for DC (aged 9 and 10). DM is very independent but we have been visiting regularly since covid (long-haul flight away) and I’ve been helping with lots of things which have enabled her to stay safe & independent.

My sister and I have never been close. Sister has a high-powered job, also lives abroad but can’t visit DM as often or move home to help her due to her work. DH & I can continue to do our jobs in either place, so things are easier for us in that sense.

Since I first mentioned the idea of moving back a few months ago, DM hasn’t seemed very enthusiastic. I have asked her about this and she said she was worried about my dc’s education. The school systems in both countries are fairly similar and dc would be attending good private schools either way, so this didn’t make much sense to me.

I’ve just overheard DM on the phone to my sister, talking about me as though I were an inconvenient house guest (I have spent the week helping her with all sorts of quite serious practical things). She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.” At that point I went out into the garden to compose myself!

I’ve always found that my DM has a habit of telling people what she thinks they want to hear, so I’m rather curious why she was saying these things to my sister.

Had she been as frank with me, I would have dismissed the idea of moving. I was becoming resigned to it and DH/DC were starting to talk about with more enthusiasm but we are actually much happier where we are and certainly not bothered if the move doesn’t happen.

The whole idea was just about helping my DM. I am DM’s primary POA if anything happens to her, and I felt that she would be able to stay independent for longer if I were nearby.

Just wondering if anyone can offer any words of wisdom as I’m feeling quite hurt and confused.

Yup- I agree. My nan did the same- told people she did everything herself and was super independent when I was running around like a blue arsed fly taking her here and there, getting her shopping, helping her with appointments etc (all because she asked me to, not because I stormed in and took over- she even complained at points that I should be doing more despite the faux illusion towards everyone else that she was completely fine on her own).

I think its a combination of pride, and not wanting to admit that you need help as it hammers home your mortality and frailty.

I don't think I'd bring up that I heard her as that will just open up accusations of you listening in on her conversations and not respecting her privacy blah blah blah- it will be twisted to suit her.

However, I would not move and I'd step back a LOT and let her get on with it now I knew her true feelings on the matter. I will say though- she needs to be careful what she wishes for as at her age it would only take a fall or an illness to completely render her dependent. You make your bed, you lie in it unfortunately!

Realistically it's a huge move for you and your family and for what ends? You say she is independent now, but if she starts needing more and more care would you be physically doing it or arranging for carers to come in? You don't have to be on her doorstep to arrange that.
You might move and she deteriorates and you have uprooted your family for that. (sorry to be blunt, but at her age, an illness can take a big toll and cause rapid decline).
Its a lot to ask of your family and it doesn't sound like she would appreciate it that much anyway.

This.

Absolutely this.

Stay where you are and where your family is happiest. But tell your mother why - that you weren't eavesdropping but couldn't help overhearing her part of the conversation with your sister. Cushion it - say you didn't realise that she valued her independence so much (or something similar) and tell her that you wish she had told you - that you are hurt that she felt she couldn't confide in you.

Hope you get it sorted.

Nahhhh, I’d be having it out with her, clear the air, tell her you won’t be moving and tell her why. At the end of the day it won’t be your DSis who she rings when she needs help.

That sounds incredibly hurtful. I agree with others about you talking to your dm about what you heard.
I don’t think you should sacrifice your dc’s stability of home and school to help your dm if she has openly said she doesn’t want you to.

I don't know if I'd uproot my life to be closer to my mum. If she's wealthy, then she could afford a carer and cleaner. It doesn't sound like she actually wants you to move closer. Ask her what she thinks about you moving closer, and see what she says.

My own parents have already passed away, however I sometimes think that they can get to stage in life where they don't know what they want. My own MIL will welcome her son (DH's brother) for going for going round to help her weekly. But will moan about hims "always turning up" to other members of the family. My own parents were very critical of my career to me, but apparently very complimentary of me to their friends.

Try not to be hurt OP, just be pleased you overheard them speaking. I'd cancel the plans back, remain civil but do things at a distance. Sorry you were upset - it's horrible when you have only got someone's best interests at heart and have put yourself out - only for them to have an issue with it.

I suspect she’s fiercely independent and it scares he’s that you’re coming back to help her. You need an honest conversation with her before you up sticks and move if she genuinely doesn’t want you to. Maybe stay where you are.

Your mother has tell you what she thinks openly but you do not want to accept it:

• She likes having her own space
• she doesn’t want anyone fussing over her.
• She knows how old she is and being an independent woman she does not want you to turn your family life around to babysit her for a couple of years.

Just listen to her, I don’t think she is hiding anything, she has told you what she thinks and what she wants.

I am very independent and have no relatives in the country, if DS told me was turning his life around to care for me in my last years I would tell him where to go, I didn’t sacrifice so much to get him where he is for him to squander everything to get my shopping and check me twice a day!

I’ve just overheard DM on the phone to my sister, talking about me as though I were an inconvenient house guest (I have spent the week helping her with all sorts of quite serious practical things). She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.” At that point I went out into the garden to compose myself!

As someone who spends a lot of time with old people I wouldn’t actually pay much heed to it. Some elderly people who are used to being independent hate the thought of being charity cases and needing help. Their way of expressing independence can be disparaging about the person helping them or the help itself - like “I don’t need this, @greengrass is just here annoying me”, or “she’s telling me how to use the computer as if I didn’t know” etc. Equally she might be saying “no idea why @greengrass wants to move here, she’ll always be dropping in, it’s a bad idea” etc. But she may also genuinely think it’s a bad idea for you to move country with your family due to all the disruption, on her account..

The fact that when you offer to stay in a hotel indicates she wants you to stay. (Unless she’s the type to do something for form’s sake - which at 93 she may be).

I'm guessing a part of it is her reluctance to accept her decline into dependancy; its extremely distressing for most older people.

And that generation does struggle with being honest but kind, they're the product of a time when assertiveness was equated to passive aggression.

Or maybe she's a bitch. My mum spent her parental years driving wedges between her kids. The old divide and conquer.

My neighbour is 97 in 2 months. She has a gardener and that's it. Stopped driving last year and uses taxis. She gets the community bus to her aerobics class and to the supermarket. Stopped playing golf but still goes to the golf club for her lunch once a week. Amazing lady, absolutely love her!

Your mother has tell you what she thinks openly but you do not want to accept it

No, the entire point is- she hasn't said this and she hasn't been open at all. OP has asked her outright and she wouldnt answer, was dismissive, and gave some lame excuse about her grandchildren's schooling. That is NOT telling her what she thinks openly. Her entire behaviour is contradictory. When OP offers to stay in a hotel nearby instead of staying with her she insists she doesnt do that and is even affronted by the suggestion, but then when she does stay with her, she moans about it behind her back.

Thats not open conversation, its passive aggressiveness which is the very opposite of "open communication".

I was looking after my friend 92yo mother for a couple of weeks. She is far from senile but sometimes she would talk shite about her sons. I put it down to her age

Sometimes people lose their filter as they get older. It’s what they really think just spilling out. My mother can be really nasty. She’s always been unpleasant to me , but age has removed any filters.

My mother has some weird deep self esteem issues and a massive inferiority complex. It means she can never admit out loud that somebody is doing something lovely for her that clearly shows how much they think of her. Whenever she tells a story she does whatever the opposite of showing off is, massively downplays the effort somebody has gone to, implies she didn’t want it in the first place and tells it like she is somehow the victim of their generosity. I find it incredibly hurtful as I’m sure most of her friends must think I’m a controlling, impatient arse (I’ve heard my actions described and it is usually a far cry from the truth).
is there any chance your mum is a bit overwhelmed by the kindness and tries to brush it off as a negative? Or perhaps has wanted this for years but didn’t want to admit it so is downplaying it to your sister?
long shot I know 😆

She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.”

To me this sounds as though she might like the idea but doesn't want to be blamed for you moving over to support her. She is maybe trying to let your older Sister know that what she offers as far as support, is enough, because there is some guilt and possibly jealousy, on your Sisters part, that she can't get over as often as you do ?

@Anneinavan that all sounds very familiar!

Mine also pretends to come from very humble origins and to be as poor as a church mouse. Neither is true.

We were at a fish market last year & they were selling fresh oysters to eat at a bench to the side. I suggested having one, and DM relented, but not before telling the fishmonger that oysters were normally ‘well beyond my modest budget.’ Again, no idea why she does this.

Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this too, was a gift.

Mary Oliver

This really resonated with me, I think some of My DMILs behaviour was based on poor self-esteem issues. She certainly didn’t like receiving gifts, whenever we sent flowers for things like Mother’s Day I would end up thinking she thought I was a spendthrift and showing off by sending flowers!. She didn’t comprehend that it gave us pleasure to do what we felt were nice things for her because we loved and valued her. She did have poor self-esteem and didn’t like to be the centre of attention and wasn’t very good at receiving compliments.

I have read OP's posts but have not read the whole thread, so forgive me if I am repeating what others have said.

There seems to be an assumption that if the OP's DM is nice then she wants her to come home and live nearby, and if she thinks that is a bad idea then she is not very nice and OP should reduce contact.

Is there an alternative scenario where the OP's DM loves her and her family dearly, but thinks they are actually better off where they are? They themselves admit they would be happier there. Maybe she senses this and supports them in staying where they are happy rather than moving back to the UK to be close to a 90+ year old woman, who in all fairness doesn't have more than another 20 or 30 years left. Is it wrong if she wants them to stay where their kids are happy rather than uprouting them for her "benefit"?

Maybe she is just communicating this badly. She wouldn't be the first parent to try and encourage her kids to do something for themselves by pushing them out of the nest (or preventing them returning to her nest when they have a perfectly nice nest of their own).

@Thegreengreengrassofhomes, think positive, stay where you are with your family, don't return home, but do still call often and make short visits when you can.

Good luck!

@LeicesterDad I have wondered whether the truth is something this simple, it would make sense in a lot of ways. My mother has become less filtered & more judgmental in recent years, but she has always been very kind.

I suppose it was the tone in her voice that upset me, more than what she said - but again that was obviously for my sister’s benefit (for whatever reason) not mine.

Another who hasn’t read the thread completely.
I do agree that moving children to a new school so close to moving on to another would be a concern.
Are you sure that both your mother and sister are convinced you plan on renting/buying and not just stay with your mum?
Maybe the next time you visit with your children, you should stay in a local hotel and not just take your mums word for her being ok with you staying with her. At 90+ it’s probably exhausting for her.

If I am honest your mother is old and you have the chance now to choose your truth. You do not want to move home. Your family don't want to move home. Your mother doesn't want you to move home.

Choose the truth that allows you to live the rest of your life at peace with your mum as a generous person who wanted the best for you and your family. There is a very good chance that that is her truth too.

Yeah, my mum is a bit like this between me and my brother. She tells us different things to avoid being held accountable. It's not malicious in any way it's just how she operates so she is always seen as the good guy.

It would be hard, but I would attempt to open up some genuine communication between you and your sister now you are adults. I bet you find that both of you have been told some untruths along the way.