Overheard my mother talking to my sister

[Thegreengreengrassofhomes]

Currently staying with DM (93). I have been living abroad for 12 years but we have been thinking about moving back home to be closer to DM & have been looking into schools etc for DC (aged 9 and 10). DM is very independent but we have been visiting regularly since covid (long-haul flight away) and I’ve been helping with lots of things which have enabled her to stay safe & independent.

My sister and I have never been close. Sister has a high-powered job, also lives abroad but can’t visit DM as often or move home to help her due to her work. DH & I can continue to do our jobs in either place, so things are easier for us in that sense.

Since I first mentioned the idea of moving back a few months ago, DM hasn’t seemed very enthusiastic. I have asked her about this and she said she was worried about my dc’s education. The school systems in both countries are fairly similar and dc would be attending good private schools either way, so this didn’t make much sense to me.

I’ve just overheard DM on the phone to my sister, talking about me as though I were an inconvenient house guest (I have spent the week helping her with all sorts of quite serious practical things). She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.” At that point I went out into the garden to compose myself!

I’ve always found that my DM has a habit of telling people what she thinks they want to hear, so I’m rather curious why she was saying these things to my sister.

Had she been as frank with me, I would have dismissed the idea of moving. I was becoming resigned to it and DH/DC were starting to talk about with more enthusiasm but we are actually much happier where we are and certainly not bothered if the move doesn’t happen.

The whole idea was just about helping my DM. I am DM’s primary POA if anything happens to her, and I felt that she would be able to stay independent for longer if I were nearby.

Just wondering if anyone can offer any words of wisdom as I’m feeling quite hurt and confused.

By all means tell your mother what you overheard, but she will deny it. Or that she meant it that way. She's just worried about the GC's schooling... etc.

Let's be blunt - she's 93. She's not going to be around for more than about seven years, probably. Is that worth uprooting your family's life for, when she doesn't seem to want you there?

I'd imagine that there's been conversations where your sister has been negative about your proposed move to your mum. Possibly because she doesn't want it to be seen as you doing a better thing for your mum than she is. Possibly because shes concerned about the impact on you. Possibly even due to worry about losing inheritance. She's your sister, you know whats most in character there.
As a people pleaser your mum may well be saying 'well I didn't ask her to, I don't want her to' to get your sister off her back. She may also be playing how much she likes having you there if thsts what your sister prefers to hear. My point, don't take what she says to your sister as an accurate reflection of her views. Ask her straight out if she wants you to move. No need to mention what you overheard.

I'd wouldn't bother moving. Your mother and sister can deal with any issues, which might arise in future,

I think I'd be up front with your dm.

I'd scrap the plans and actually tell her why, I'd say that you'd overheard her conversation with your ds and as a result you're changing your plans and not moving etc, I'd also mention that you'd have preferred her to speak to you directly rather than to have overheard

Don't move op. Let me guess, you have never gotten any gratitude for all the help you've given your mother?

I noticed it is very common for old people to pretend they are not getting any help from anyone because admitting it would make them feel helpless and vulnerable. It's sad.

Old people can be difficult. No point trying to explain it. They just are. It’s hard getting old!

I do think it’s based on a need to feel she is independent and is not reliant on you. As you feel you are close to your DM I personally wouldn’t read too much into the overhead phone conversation.
My DMIL was a bit like this, particularly as she became older and more in need of support, she hated needing others to help her and would often imply that her DD was just making a fuss and being bossy about helping her. I felt so sorry for my SIL who was doing so much for her, they used to clash badly. In reality DMIL adored her DD and would chat about her so proudly in other ways. I did my best to support as well and was also sometimes on the receiving end of comments.
I think you need to do what is best for you and your own peace of mind, but do try to forget the snippet of overhead conversation - it was just a display of a need to feel more independent than she is really feeling logically.

You know your mother better than any of us, but I wonder if your pragmatic sister has said it isn’t fair to uproot you, dh and the children to move all the way back to ‘care’ for DM when she a) doesn’t need it and b) won’t be around for too much longer anyway. Maybe your mother is reassuring your sister that she certainly isn’t putting pressure on you and is perfectly fine on her own.

It may sound like DM doesn’t want or need you to come - and perhaps she doesn’t think it’s worth the stress and cost. She may know how happy you are, and doesn’t want to be responsible if it all goes wrong.

Older people become less polite and tolerant as they get older - she probably can’t be bothered at this point to say it more kindly. People also get used to living alone, it sounds like she has two dc that live overseas and she has managed to this point. It might feel insulting that you are now rushing back. As she feels she doesn’t ‘need’ anyone…. Just a thought..

Cancel the move and stay where you are. Do not be as available to your mother or sister going forward.

I think you should consider this as a possibility before making any decisions . And speak to your mother.

Now you know how DM really feels. I'm sorry you had to find out by over hearing. I'd leave her to Crack on alone. Sister can help from now.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but my mum often moans to others like this about help I've given her.

It's something I haven't quite worked out, but I think it might have something to do with her general lack of autonomy in life. She was very much in the passenger seat with Dad making all the decisions and e.g. talking about "his" mortgage when they both paid into it.

A lifetime of this gave her a sort of passive aggressive approach whereby she likes to moan about "interference" and yet will not, or cannot, make her own mind up about anything that needs doing.

It's a bit confusing because at times she is extremely grateful.

She could be thinking 'I'm 93 and get support weekly from my other daughter. I don't want her to screw up her life and that of her children on my account when I can tell that she doesn't particularly want to come back, but feels obliged to. Chances are no sooner than they're here, they won't need to be anymore, anyhow and she'll have put everybody through all of that for the sake of a few months. I don't want that for her or my grandchildren'.

And stay elsewhere when you visit. At least that's what I would do.

Oh, that must have been upsetting! Maybe, as some others have suggested, she’s behaving like this because she’s resisting the idea that she might need others’ help… You mentioned that she is very independent…

At 93 surely she already has carers or home help for when the OP isn’t around.
Otherwise she’d be a miracle of human nature (born in 1931 with a second child at 45??, maybe she is…).
Are these arrangements satisfactory for everyone? Can they be added to as she gets more frail?
In that case I’d stay where I am and carry on with regular visits. It will be stressful and, inevitably, hard POA decisions will need to be made but if you trust her home care providers you know she’ll be comfortable and well looked after for as long as possible. Your mother doesn’t want you around so why uproot your family?

Keep the kids out of it, they don’t need 5 (?) years of their mother’s daily stress and unhappiness on top of a change of school and country.

Just say, "I've been thinking, you're right about the upheaval etc. If you're sure you'll be OK then I think we'll just stay put.'
Revealing that you heard the conversation is opening up a can of worms which I couldn't be bothered to deal with, quite frankly. I'd also back off a little and let your sister pick up the slack.

How long and expensive is the flight over ?

You've had some great advice so far and it sounds like you're a wonderful DD to your DM to be planning this. I say put your own DCs and DH first, if they are happy and settled where you are, and DM would be the only real reason to move, then don't do it.

It sounds like you are in a financial position to fly over at short notice when needed. I'd also be gathering a list of local care agencies and perhaps visiting one or two care homes ( don't tell DM) just in case you're required to make decisions at short notice which is often the way of these things.

I'd say she thinks you think she's beginning to not be able to manage as independently as she always has therefore she's pushing you away/to stay where you are. That if you move nearby she'd have to fully give up that independence she currently has.
Or maybe like many of the elderly folk I've worked with she "just doesn't want to put anybody out or be any trouble."

I think if I were in your shoes @Thegreengreengrassofhomes I'd ask her to be completely honest with me about what she thought, and tell her that if she wasn't able to do that then you (dh, dc) would decide as a family unit what to do and she wouldn't be involved in that decision.

Maybe she feels guilty that ye are making such a big life changing move for her when she may only be around for a very short time to come.

That was what my father wanted, so my mother stuck with it when her lawyer redrafted her will after he died. Her finances are very complex, I agree a second executor would be sensible (it needn’t be me! )

No, she doesn’t have any home help or carers currently- only a gardener. She lives alone in a big house and does everything herself. She really is astonishingly fit and active. But she’s had a hip operation and is on various medications, she does get quite muddled with technology and other modern things.

Sounds as if she's just playing a part to your sis amd I wouldn't take her words for truth.
However, if you feel the move wpuld affect you negatively don't do it fgs!

I guess she may genuinely be worried about education: moving at 9 and 10 when they are happily settled in school isn't great when they may be moving on again within a year or two, and when they might be coming up to entrance exams for secondary schools?

Don't question it.
Count yourself lucky.