Overheard my mother talking to my sister

[Thegreengreengrassofhomes]

Currently staying with DM (93). I have been living abroad for 12 years but we have been thinking about moving back home to be closer to DM & have been looking into schools etc for DC (aged 9 and 10). DM is very independent but we have been visiting regularly since covid (long-haul flight away) and I’ve been helping with lots of things which have enabled her to stay safe & independent.

My sister and I have never been close. Sister has a high-powered job, also lives abroad but can’t visit DM as often or move home to help her due to her work. DH & I can continue to do our jobs in either place, so things are easier for us in that sense.

Since I first mentioned the idea of moving back a few months ago, DM hasn’t seemed very enthusiastic. I have asked her about this and she said she was worried about my dc’s education. The school systems in both countries are fairly similar and dc would be attending good private schools either way, so this didn’t make much sense to me.

I’ve just overheard DM on the phone to my sister, talking about me as though I were an inconvenient house guest (I have spent the week helping her with all sorts of quite serious practical things). She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.” At that point I went out into the garden to compose myself!

I’ve always found that my DM has a habit of telling people what she thinks they want to hear, so I’m rather curious why she was saying these things to my sister.

Had she been as frank with me, I would have dismissed the idea of moving. I was becoming resigned to it and DH/DC were starting to talk about with more enthusiasm but we are actually much happier where we are and certainly not bothered if the move doesn’t happen.

The whole idea was just about helping my DM. I am DM’s primary POA if anything happens to her, and I felt that she would be able to stay independent for longer if I were nearby.

Just wondering if anyone can offer any words of wisdom as I’m feeling quite hurt and confused.

My mother did the same. I eventually realized she didn't like me or love me. Wish I'd believed it earlier as I was of the thought that a mum cannot feel like that towards their own child.
With realization came peace.
All the years/decades I'd tried my best were wasted time and just bought anxiety and sadness.
Reset the relationship by deciding what you want and don't consider her.

This changes things. Your sister is the executor and has POA? There is no need for you to be involved at all, much less move there - or - even assist your mother at all. Sounds as though big sis can handle it all herself. You are relieved of duty and can go live your best life.

You cannot make yourself the preferred child.

So stop trying.

And model better relationships for your dc.

She won't allow it? Just do it. You don't need her permission. Stay in a hotel.

I had something similar happen - caught out my DM complaining about my wonderful DH to her friend when he'd always been amazing with her, helping her with all kinds of stuff. I then realised she must have been doing the same to family members (which explained how they'd been acting around DH!) and that probably what she'd been telling me about my SIL wasn't true either!

All of it was designed to make DM feel better about herself by putting others down.

As she's got older and a bit confused she's nearly outed herself doing it as she now forgets what she's said to someone!

I've nipped it in the bud now. I query things she says (which she hates - sometimes she puts the phone down on me now!) and I've set up a WhatsApp group for me, her and golden balls brother which means anything she says can be immediately verified with him and she can see it. She also hates this!

I would not be putting my children through that much disruption for someone of 93 who is behaving like this.

She won't allow it?

How will she prevent it?

You have a choice. She can't stop you.

To be fair Op your mother has never been a fan of the plan regarding you moving near her.

Ditch the plan!

No, we had intended to rent a house nearby (about 10 minute drive away from DM). And possibly buy once settled.

That's exactly what I do, you're totally correct about being the "wrong child". I've seen how it is with the "right child" (who is just one long drama queen lurching from crisis to crisis) and I will never get treated the same as that.

At 93 having people in the house is very tiring, so I try to break up the visit by popping in and out over the few hours I'm there.

Do not move. Visit for longer if required but stay elsewhere.

Give your DM agency about who does the donkey work. If she doesn't want you to do it, point out she will have to get someone else in. There are no good choices at that age, just wants that don't meet needs.

It’s my personal experience with my DM and my MIL, that they’ve got themselves tied up in knots in their relationships with their dc/dcs-in-law, tied up in knots with their public persona which they can’t maintain in advanced years, tied up in knots with expectations that they have of themselves and others largely due to “appearances” and what their siblings and friends might think of them. They also don’t take responsibility for their actions, and become aggressive or passive aggressive when others don’t do whatever is required for them to maintain the facades they’ve erected for themselves.

I’ve learned over the years not to try to make sense of it. Sense isn’t what matters to them. It’s the ability to maintain a certain sense of themselves that they want.

The day I chose to prioritise my duties to my dc and DH over my wish to accommodate or help them was a very liberating day. I can’t help the situations these women have put themselves in, and I can’t do what they want me to do (goes against the very things I teach and model to my own children). I do that part of my duty that I can do without compromising myself or my children. So, I ensure they’re cared for and not lonely for example - but around my family’s schedule and not “coincidentally” at the time of so-and-so’s granddaughter’s wedding. I will with post-operative care; but according to whatever the doctors say is required and not because this or that time slot will make other DILs feel bad/good.

It’s exhausting, keeping up with egos. But, family I suppose.

Weirdly I am the POA, but sister the executor.

Although I know it doesn’t sound like it here, DM and I have always been very close, we’ve always talked about more personal things and had more shared interests etc whereas mum’s relationship with DSis was quite dry, but she has depended on her more since our father died a few years ago.

Yup. My mum brazenly lies so she can feel whatever she wants to feel, and when challenged or called out just shrugs and says “it’s not a big deal, why are you making such a big deal about it?”. Has made me question what lies I and other people have been told over the years that I don’t know about.

I now assume everything she says is a lie, and she hates it. I end up saying “well, consequences” with a shrug, EXACTLY the same way as I do with my dc.

I think it's this. It can be difficult to adjust to the role of elderly dependent needing care, even at 93

It doesn't like you lot talk to each other very much. I don't think you've said how the whole idea of moving came about. Could it be that too many assumptions have been made? You've just assumed your mother needs and wants help but it's never actually been properly discussed? Did you just announce that you were moving over? It could be that she thinks she'll lose some of her independence if you move near her, and feel forced to go along with things that you think are a good idea that she might not otherwise have decided for herself?

Looking at it simply, it may be that she is fully aware that she may only have a year or 2 left to live, and if that's the case it would be a shame to cause such disruption to your family for only a short time. Maybe she has a health issue that you're not aware of, that's life limiting, and doesn't want to tell you?

It could be that she is secretly delighted that you're moving to be near her, but doens't want to make your sister feel bad that she isn't having any disruption to HER life, so is going along with the pretence that it's all your idea really and she's just gong along with it and isn't terribly bothered.

You just don't know unless you all TALK to each other. Properly. It doesn't sound like there's too much of that going on between anyone. Dh's family is a bit like that. They don't openly say how they feel for fear of causing offence or putting people under pressure to act a certain way. So no-one discusses anything. Lots of assumptions are made about the reasons why someone acts a certain way, or about their thought processes. Whereas in my family I'd just openly ask "Mum, what do you actually WANT to happen? We're all happy to move over for a few years, would you like that?" Then if you think she isn't telling the truth just say "you don't SEEM terribly enthusiastic, what is it you're worried about?"

Just talk.

Well I’m very much a talker and I’ve tried - but my DM didn’t say much back. At first I thought she was just surprised, or that she wasn’t saying much because she felt guilty about us uprooting ourselves for her sake. More recently as I’ve been choosing schools she’s started talking about the educational issue. I asked her directly if she just didn’t want us to move nearby & she’d say “Of course, I’d be thrilled but I’m terribly worried about the schools etc” Which is obviously nonsense.

I can’t force her to divulge her reasons. It was just the tone and the cold way she was talking about me and the complete lack of acknowledgment that I’ve been helping her that really stung.

This is exactly what I would do.

Yep. Just say you've changed your plans as I overheard you speaking with sister.

Then relax and enjoy where you already live.

What does DH think? It sounds like you're better off staying where you are.

"The school systems in both countries are fairly similar and dc would be attending good private schools either way, so this didn’t make much sense to me."
Your children were born in the country you currently live in - moving them at any age to a private school or otherwise is going to be disruptive. I would not want my grandchildren disrupted in this way for me.
If you are happier where you are - stay where you are.
But do not take what she said personally.

Yes she’s worried your sister will think you’re the favourite somehow and she’s saying that she wouldn’t have any say in the matter to negate that. She’s like my mum in that she’s manipulative but absolutely hopeless at it because as if she would/should have my say in where you live!

Trouble is, even terribly obvious manipulation has an effect on the family dynamics. And if you being this up with her, I can guarantee that all hell will break loose!

Can I ask how old you are @Thegreengreengrassofhomes because you're DM is 93 but you've a 9 year old.

Difficult to hear OP.

I mean this kindly but at 93 I wouldn’t uproot my whole life to move nearer to her.

Can you ask your sister straight out what was she actually replied to your mother when she said those things?

I can actually understand this...

Your mum is 93, has managed without support until now, and simply cannot envisage a future where you are going to around all the time
She is panicking that life as she knows it is going to change, that she will lose her independence, but rather than say that, she is dismissive of you - 'what on earth does she think she's doing'??

Try not to take offence, its a difficult situation for you both . I wish you the best🙂

I'd stay where you are and be very wary of both your mum and your sister. THey've clearly had these conversations about you before.