Overheard my mother talking to my sister

[Thegreengreengrassofhomes]

Currently staying with DM (93). I have been living abroad for 12 years but we have been thinking about moving back home to be closer to DM & have been looking into schools etc for DC (aged 9 and 10). DM is very independent but we have been visiting regularly since covid (long-haul flight away) and I’ve been helping with lots of things which have enabled her to stay safe & independent.

My sister and I have never been close. Sister has a high-powered job, also lives abroad but can’t visit DM as often or move home to help her due to her work. DH & I can continue to do our jobs in either place, so things are easier for us in that sense.

Since I first mentioned the idea of moving back a few months ago, DM hasn’t seemed very enthusiastic. I have asked her about this and she said she was worried about my dc’s education. The school systems in both countries are fairly similar and dc would be attending good private schools either way, so this didn’t make much sense to me.

I’ve just overheard DM on the phone to my sister, talking about me as though I were an inconvenient house guest (I have spent the week helping her with all sorts of quite serious practical things). She then started to discuss my planned move in a very disparaging, negative way. She mentioned that it was a bad idea but that unfortunately she “wouldn’t have any say in the matter.” At that point I went out into the garden to compose myself!

I’ve always found that my DM has a habit of telling people what she thinks they want to hear, so I’m rather curious why she was saying these things to my sister.

Had she been as frank with me, I would have dismissed the idea of moving. I was becoming resigned to it and DH/DC were starting to talk about with more enthusiasm but we are actually much happier where we are and certainly not bothered if the move doesn’t happen.

The whole idea was just about helping my DM. I am DM’s primary POA if anything happens to her, and I felt that she would be able to stay independent for longer if I were nearby.

Just wondering if anyone can offer any words of wisdom as I’m feeling quite hurt and confused.

I’m going to go against the grain but I would not tell mum I overheard that conversation because her 93 year old head is going to get paranoid and she’s going to think you’re spying on her or god knows what. It’s also going to muddle your relationship with her. I would quietly back off from the getting close to mum plan, stay were you are and just tell her that you’ve thought things twice and for x and y reasons have decided to stay. End of. Don’t get into a fight with 93 yr old mom, she has very little time in this planet.

Take the chance to have these conversations while you can, even if they are painful - there is hope of a better understanding between the two of you if you do.

I totally agree, I’d much rather know the truth and am pleased I overheard this, even though it was hurtful. Unfortunately I get the impression DM is determined to keep her reasons to herself. It may be something to do with her pride/independence. She may worry people will think she isn’t coping if her DD moves back to be near her.
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Given your mum’s actions, with her lack of enthusiasm, showing you that she didn’t want you to move, I would believe that. You say she says what people want to hear so when she told you she wanted you to move, it was unlikely to be true.

I’ve thought the same, too. I was thinking that the best solution might be to talk to sister and hopefully get her to reveal what DM said.

Then I can say, “Sister mentioned you had some reservations…” or similar as a way of bringing it up.

I agree with this.
She is 93, you have a limited amount of time left with her, so I would still move. We were trying to buy a house that would work for my Mum as well, so that she could live with us, but she deteriorated so fast in that time that she needed 24 hour care so instead I found a care home very close to me that meant I could see her very frequently, pop in after school with the dds, pop in for a cup of tea with her on weekends etc. i am so glad I had that time with her.
Old people can get quite afraid of change, your mother may well think she doesn’t want you moving as it is both a sign that she needs the assistance, and also a sign that things are changing. That is frightening and depressing, she may not want to appear grateful because it makes her feel very vulnerable and needy. My Mil is 88 and can get a bit stroppy about not needing help. Mostly she doesn’t need help anyway, but she is tenacious about her independence as she knows that she is getting a bit more forgetful etc.
i really wouldn’t take those comments very personally. Just as children are not normally very grateful for all we do for them, very elderly people are often not very grateful either. And both things come from a place of not wanting to need help.

@Thegreengreengrassofhomes

"I was becoming resigned to it and DH/DC were starting to talk about with more enthusiasm but we are actually much happier where we are and certainly not bothered if the move doesn’t happen"

resigned; an adjective

having accepted something unpleasant that one cannot do anything about

Worry ye not now! You can absolutely, choose what's best for everyone in this situation, not just your Mum.

See, DM absolutely denies that she is suffering any impairment or needs any support at all in the same breath as saying it’s totally unreasonable to expect her to manage on her own and she’s very neglected and hard done by.

She only comes to us for Christmas if we assure her we actually want to have her. Obviously that involves 12 hours driving to and fro which we are thrilled to do because we want her to come so much and she couldn’t possibly catch a train or drive (despite having managed other major drives and holidays alone).

She only wants us to visit and sort out her heating, her tech, move her furniture around, change all her lightbulbs and do numerous tip and charity runs if we are there for a holiday and want to spend the day at the seaside/a random national trust property.

Basically pride means you can’t possibly be doing for her benefit.

You must be doing despite the fact she neither needs nor wants you to.

Obv. 💐 from the front line.

It’s those twice weekly conversations she has with your sister … I’m afraid you have been painted in a bad light (by whom??).

Personally I wouldn’t act on overheard remarks - because, as I said, it’s likely they were made for the benefit of her interlocutor.

(The over 90 year olds in my orbit are no longer entirely cognitively reliable - so it’s quite likely that if asked, they would deny saying the thing I’d overheard …)

It’s those twice weekly conversations she has with your sister … I’m afraid you have been painted in a bad light (by whom??).

Yes, in some ways this really is at the heart of it.

Think it sounds like your mum may have been trying to allay any sense of (unspoken) guilt on your sister’s behalf, even if she’s imagined it. Also a front to appear independent as pp have said.

Do you want to move back aside from to be with your mum?

How long are you staying with her, if you feel she doesn't want you there book a hotel, go out for the day, maybe it's not worth the aggro, if you want to move back you can, but do it for yourselves. Perhaps deep down she doesn't want you to uproot your family just for her, she's not going to be around forever and then what? Would you move back if she wasn't around.

Sounds like you have been doing the “ invisible mending” in dms life where she hasn’t had to acknowledge to herself what you are doing.
Keep focussed on maintaining your relationship with dm… and explore what she really feels.

Do you want to move back aside from to be with your mum?

I was definitely becoming happier with the idea in recent weeks - there are some potential benefits from the move (apart from helping DM) but we are also happy where we are, and obviously moving would be very disruptive.

I would assume DM believes you are diminishing what support she receives from DDSis - making DSis look bad by helping so much. And if DSis is the favoured one she won’t want this or she is worried DSis thinks she is being usurped and will feel annoyed by your decisions to move close to DM.
Dont tell DM you heard - just decide that as she is doing so well on her own your family will stay where they are.

How long are you staying with her, if you feel she doesn't want you there book a hotel

I’ve often suggested that in the past but she gets very affronted by the suggestion & won’t allow it. But I’m sure she tells DSis how exhausting it is having houseguests, especially when the DC are with me.

She could also be scared and not keen to admit to herself how you coming over means she’s getting frail and might not be independent much longer.

I still wouldn’t move in your shoes. This might sound awful but at 96 you could go through all that stress only for her to die quite soon. It only takes one fall and then it can be a sharp decline.

Yupp, they protect their view of themselves by attributing failings on to you. As the favourite sensible daughter and the independent mother (who recognises the daughter who didn't emigrate), they both need to project various traits onto you. Ie, it's not that you're more than willing to step up, no, it's that now you're taking over .
Even though they may value their own independence, when they see it in you, suddenly it's awkwardness, it's "not that I'll get a say".

My own mother has been a case study in this "skill". By projecting an array of traits and accusations at me, she and my dad can remain perfect, sensible, sacrificing...

I've had to do the same. Drop back because of similar situation. I only travel two hours each way and will not stay in their house so it isn't quite as bad as yours but we already uprooted more than twenty years ago to be close enough to help and it's never been good enough because I am the wrong child.
Live your life.

I would ask your sister to help you understand why she wouldn't want another member of family around. See what she says. No point arguing, just listen to try and figure out what her narrative is.

Are you moving in with your DM? If so has she consented to this, if not, is she aware that you will have your own house?

Without sounding arrogant can I suggest you don’t give as much care to their opinion and backstabbing as you are doing?

These two are likely to have been chatting about you for many years and regardless of whatever you did they would still be doing it.

I would think sod you mother, I’d live at her home and I’d make myself comfortable (respectfully so) and if she’s got the hump she can tell you and if not she will just moan to your sister

Let them crack on - I hope you have seen your mothers will

And it’s your life not hers so to hell with her judging your decisions. She isn’t the one who lives and breathes them.

To me, she is looking a gift horse in the mouth!

And your sister well she’s got the right idea hasn’t she!

It probably is exhausting having house guests when you're 93 - it can be exhausting when you're 50 too!

If there would be advantages to moving, then perhaps you and your DH just need to chat again about the pros and cons of moving and decide if it suits you. After all, at 93 your DM could die shortly before your move, when it's too late to back out, or she could die very soon after you arrive. Alternatively, you could spend the next several years flogging back and forth on expensive long-haul flights due to her increasing needs, while she still claims not to need your help. Some people live past 100 and if you DM needs care, either at home or to be moved to a nursing home, it sounds like the burden of that will fall to you. Were you planning to move home at some point anyway?

Wow, I am so sorry. You must be hurt. However, I am actually glad you overheard that conversation. Now you can cancel the move and, as you said, you are rethinking the frequent visits. It hurts to be unappreciated. I would also tell your sister that you overheard the convo and your mother's care will now become the burden of your sister. Done deal.

If she's 93 it must be very tiring to have your grandchildren aged 9 and 10 staying with you for any length of time.

Stay where you are, OP. Your happiness - and that of your husband and kids - needs to take priority.