Life expectancy sent by email - relative

[BillStickersIsInnocent]

Hi, I hope someone can help.

I’m really shocked by this communication but I could well be missing something. A relative received an email after a CT scan saying he had inoperable lung cancer and giving him 2 years to live. 2 weeks later another email saying his scan had been sent to another clinician who has concluded he has 8 months to live.
This feels so cruel, I would have thought these conversations happen face to face or at least over the phone where you can ask questions.
Does anyone else have any experience of this type of communication?

I think you have done a good thing with the follow up and it’s positive that they had already googled the Dr name and found an issue - so you had already sown a seed of doubt for them to take this action.

Let it percolate for a bit longer with the DF.

I doubt you have burned bridges - you have raised a concern it’s up to them to pick it up.

Are they / you still talking in terms of the son being scammed or are there now questions unsaid looming over the son’s actions?

Are you scared of the son or of his parents cutting you off?

Karachi to Sydenham/ Manchester/ Morecambe/Leicester/Louth... (insert where he is) Imagine what time it must be to get up for that commute?

The following are the top 5 Oncologist in Karachi:

• Dr. Faizan Ullah.
• Dr. Shabbir Hussain.
• Dr. Asghar H Asghar.
• Dr. Azhar Rashid.
• Dr. Amna Masood.
• Dr. Amir Maqbool.
• Dr. Aamir Maqbool.
• Dr. Adeel Ahmed.

If you suggested going with him to get a 2nd opinion, because obviously it's so serious, I wonder what answer you would get.

my team does.

Even if they do nothing now, there will be an element of doubt, especially when the requests for money start coming in.

@Ooolaaaala I haven’t specifically said I believe the son is lying but I’ve shifted it on from talking about someone scamming the son to more generally saying the emails are suspicious and the whole situation is making me concerned they (the parents) are at risk.

I’m not scared of the son cutting me off at all, we’ve been pretty much non contact anyway since his last offence. But I would be very sad and worried if the parents cut me off, they are good, kind and interesting people and not seeing them again would be be awful for me and my family.

I don't think you can do any more until he makes his next move. And to be able to help the parents once the money requests start coming, they need to still be in communication with you. So I think you're right to let this lie (pun intended) for now.

The son may try to pressure the parents into cutting contact with you, although what would be great would be if he realised the jig was up and he got another fake email that said there had been a case of mistaken identity and he wasn't sick at all, i.e. he brings the scam to an end before it begins. I'm assuming all this fake correspondence doesn't have his NHS number on it (this guy probably doesn't know where to find that).

It's an embarrassingly poorly constructed scam, and the parents have a few seeds of doubt now - the misspelling of palliative in the email, the fact the only oncologist with the right name is in Karachi. Time to let this percolate for a bit and see if he blows his cover.

I think you’ve done what you can OP, just try and disengage from the family for now even if you continue to make further investigations yourself.

there are only two possibilities here- either he had fallen for a scam or has
fabricated the entire thing himself.

the doctor upthread’s comments are very helpful- sounds like she can help you further

the two things which are the biggest signs of bullshit imo:-

1. you Just can’t give any clear information on a cancer without a biopsy which he says he hasn’t had?
2. the lack of hospital name is super suspicious. Surely he has mentioned to you the hospital at which he is being treated. Fine so ring up the hospital trust switchboard and ask if there is a Doctor x there and can you be put through to his/her secretary.

ps I think you know this but if there is no oncologist registered with the GMC with the given name then that is pretty much all the evidence you need to conclude yourself (even if you can’t convince his df) that it’s just pure BS

The only “good news” to look out for is surely there will be a follow up communication at some point from the hospital if you believe he did actually have a scan (do you?). if he did have a scan then a plausible outcome could be that he’s totally fine .

@StillWantingADog I’m not clear on whether he has actually had a scan/scans or not.

I know the hospital he is supposedly being treated at but not the name of his consultant, there was nothing in the emails about who that was. I’ve asked repeatedly for that information. The ‘top oncologist’ is the only doctor I have a name for, and that’s the one not on the GMC register. There were two other names on the copied out emails, I can’t find either of these names on the Nursing Register, or the HCPC register when searching for radiologists. I can’t find them by googling, or on LinkedIn either. No info either on the hospital website.

I think the thing I’m waiting for now is what happens with the supposed Macmillan visits. Initially he was due to attend a MDT with patient present at the hospital, the emails say this was cancelled because of Covid and they decided to send Macmillan nurses to his home instead. Which is odd in itself. This was booked for the 5th, cancelled and rearranged for the 10th, which was also cancelled, because of Covid apparently. Another visit hasn’t been arranged but father is expecting this to happen soon, so if it doesn’t I wonder if the wheels will start to come off. I have asked when this is booked for.

Wtf
nothing at the moment is being cancelled “because of covid”.
staff shortages perhaps.
please tell me you agree this is total bullshit

Covid in the team I think.

Yes I think it’s bullshit

Initially he was due to attend a MDT with patient present at the hospital, the emails say this was cancelled because of Covid and they decided to send Macmillan nurses to his home instead.

Utter bollocks. Patients don't attend cancer MDTs, they go to outpatient appointments.

While an appointment might be cancelled because a staff member is sick, it would be rearranged.

The Cancer Nurse Specialists don't visit people at home. And Community Palliative Care Nurse Specialists have enough to do without running around breaking bad news that Oncology didn't get round to - plus they can't answer any questions about treatment plans as they aren't his Oncologist!

'Macmillan Nurses' could mean either of the 2 specialists above but I suspect he doesn't know that, just that Macmillan Nurses=cancer.

OP next delay will be the medical strikes. I would contact MacMillan and ask - but there will be privacy protection in place. You could still let them know you have concerns.

The Macmillan helpline can only give very generic advice. They won't know anything about individual patients.

The only people who would know are his local team (which is what most people mean by Macmillan) and they are employed by the NHS so can't share anything.

Thank you all, this is really helpful

Getting an email out of the nhs is nigh on impossible. They write to you tge old fashioned way with appointments, paper, envelope, stamp. The nhs app will record the information, the gp referral and anything the gp has received back even if the hospital is behind on their paperwork.

It is possible he received documents by email (perhaps other trusts are different to ours) to confirm the information he had already been told face to face, but things like grade of cancer would not be delegated to macmillan nurses, they are about living with cancer not diagnostic.

Sorry it sound fishy, not saying it's an outright lie but it isn't adding up

This never happened. Your family member is lying.

OP you aren’t still worried that there is even a minuscule chance that he is telling the truth are you?

You can log the 101 ways this is situation is ‘off’ as per the feedback in the thread but really all you are left with now is waiting for his next move.

It might all blow over - I wonder if he senses he’s been rumbled he will play into the he’s been scammed situation or let it all fade away.

He sounds deluded enough to do that.

Have you alerted your elderly relatives that he might ask for money - or maybe the situation might be that he has already borrowed money and is looking for a way not to pay it back?

Would he actually clear off on a once in a lifetime holiday?

Or has he possibly debts and/or addictions to finance?

Looks like your next steps are:

Asking him about things as he has opened up communication.

Keeping in touch with elderly relative re the situation - especially about money.

Consider seeking (anonymous in the first instance?) elder financial abuse advice from SS / Age U.K.?

Consider speaking to his parole officer?

I don’t think that there is much merit in a wild goose chase trying to prove him wrong with PALs etc. - this will all inevitably come out in the wash on its own - not sure you need to entangle yourself in that part as it could back fire.

My DH was the subject of many many MDT's - patients are NOT allowed to attend - they get a phone call/ appointment after the event with what has been discussed.

Top consultants are not only identifiable by their GMC records but most will have published papers, spoken at conferences, be on various working groups. They’re easy enough to find.

@Ooolaaaala yes I’ve warned them to be alert to financial asks.

I’ve been thinking about it and I’m not sure his motivation is directly financial. His parents have been wanting to move to a more accessible home for a while, and have made it clear to him that he’s not coming. The mother was in hospital recently for a stroke and so they started to put these plans into action. They then told me that they can’t move because of his diagnosis. But they seemed almost relieved about it, I think it will be a wrench to leave even though rationally they know they need to. They also tell me they are reliant on his help and are reluctant to question him for fear of losing that support. There are some very weird dynamics going on (massive understatement).

Yes that’s what I expected to find.