Siblings want to put mum in a home

[Florencenightingalewasfab]

( I'll split this into two posts as it's quite long)Mum ( now in late 70's) sold her home and gave all the money to my sister for a 2 bed 'granny flat' ( to be built on the side of my sister's home. Sister took her money and built mum a ONE bedroom extension and also managed to gain a new bedroom into the bargain. So mum didn't get what she wanted and no one could come to stay in "her" flat, Sis used the 'extra' bedroom in her house - sorry - I digress. Mum dud this on the understanding that she wouldn't have to go into a ( old people's home ). Mum also gave full access to BIL and sis to her bank account

You have no way of knowing that the sister has ripped the mother off from what OP has said. It will depend on the amount of money she gave over, the cost of the annex, the cost of council tax and utilities for the annex, and food if not paid for separately. The OP says her mother moved areas to live with her sister, she could have moved from a much cheaper area to a much more expensive one. An annex with a kitchen and bathroom fitted could easily cost £100k in the SE for a basic fit. But even if she has pocketed cash, the mother, who OP acknowledges is mentally competent, chose to give it to OP’s sister. Maybe she had always intended for everything to go to OP’s sister anyway, who knows.

I was not suggesting she charges for care. I was comparing it with the money saved on care. OP seems very concerned her sister has her inheritance, I was saying the alternative was it went on carers probably. However, why should the OPs sister take on all the burden whilst OP does nothing but still gets an equal inheritance?

@AllOutofEverything - if you think caring for an elderly person 24/7 is just “including someone in your family life” you are woefully naive. It’s not the same as caring for a child, it’s much harder.

Yes, that is the average, some will be lower, some higher. Thing is OP doesn't seem to know much about the situation at all, the extent of her involvement seems to be that she calls up every so often and starts a row with an old lady. She needs to find more information and walk a day in her sister's shoes before she throws about any accusations.

I think a lot of readers are overlooking the fact the mother retains mental capacity. Therefore, any choices the mother made about her financial arrangements have been just that: her choices.

Whether you, me or the postman agree with those choices is neither here nor there. Whether the HMRC and/or the local authority consider them legal/appropriate choices is far more important and, ultimately, the person making the choices will be held responsible for the choices.

Without the current situation having developed, as a pp said, the mother could have, for instance, chosen to leave her estate 90% to the daughter who provided care, 5% each to the two other siblings and zero to the OP. In fact, she could have chosen to pay the caring daughter £5k per month if she wanted to do so. Her choice.

Bloody hell. I was using the exact phrase someone else used.
I have been a bloody carer. And I have a disabled husband and children.

Well said.

@Trez1510 Obviously the mother can leave her estate to who she wants as long as she does not live in Scotland, But the point is the mother has not died. There is no estate. Her sisters house is her home and she has paid money into the house. This gives her rights of occupation. The state will not just ignore that or ignore the money she paid in.
The sister seems to think she can keep the money her mum gave her and the state will pay for any care home. That is very unlikely.

A friend of mine did this, took on her elderly nana who had a new dementia diagnosis. Took her money and Built a one bedroom extension and other room as a playroom for her two children.

Did not care for nana at all... left her day in day out alone with a sand which and tv re runs. She barely got out the house and as such her dementia roll hold very quickly. First time she had a bad fall she was whisked off to a home state funded.

Full turn around was about 11 months. So very cruel

I agree the state will not pick up the tab here.

The point I was attempting to make is a lot of posters are following the OPs lead and insinuating the caring sister has, somehow, ripped-off their mother financially. The mother chose to do what she has done. The mother will face the consequences of those choices e.g. she will now have to rely on her daughter (and possibly other children) to fund her care home fees.

The part about the estate was to underline the mother could have chosen to distribute it, when the time comes, in any way she chooses.

Being Scottish, I'm aware of the different inheritance laws here. Given we're outnumbered here 10:1, I've assumed this scenario is English based. 😛

We don’t know how much the mum’s house sold for! If the mum lived in a 2 bed terraced house in, for example, the North East/West, it may have not sold for much money 7yrs ago.

If someone moves into an OAP flat or sheltered housing ( not residential care )they still have to pay for utilities and service charges. And then there’s other personal costs on top like food, clothing etc. www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/sheltered-housing/

@Trez1510 - I agree with you wholeheartedly, although I am one of the 10!

@Celinia The mother will still have had an income even if only a state pension. It must have been used as 7 years of that unspent would be more than the savings allowed for the state to pay care home fees. If OP is right she says there are no savings.
But the point is the sisters house is her home and the mum has some legal rights to live there.

I think we are into very speculative territory - just because the sister has said there is “no money” for care home fees doesn’t mean that is the case in the actual savings level

Report her??!!? ??? Who said anything about reporting her???!! Why on earth would I do that??!! Think the family has enough going on without "reporting" anyone FFS

Mum gave her bank card and pin number to sis/ bil years ago.

FWIW Ive been "estranged" from my "family," for years - they have family parties and celebrations to which I don't know about. Which is fine. I've always found them a bit toxic and all the drama is not good for my mental health. Plus I have health issues of my own ( for which.my "family," inc DM) had always belittled, saying things like, god you are such a drama queen). ( I was blue lighted to hospital as I suddenly lost all feeling from my waist down) I've no idea why they are like this. I've always felt like the black sheep of my family. It's just how it's always been I did wonder for years but my "family" have gaslighted me for so long, I can't give them the mental headspace.

Bloody hell! When did I compare her to a Nazi????? There are some boody viper's on here

@Florencenightingalewasfab from your own words 'My sis ( well, her sleazy bullying gaslighting DH) are like the Gestapo.'

@SheilaFentiman True. Anyway the sister will soon find out it is not as easy as she thinks to put her mum in a home and get the state to pay.

Have you recovered from suddenly losing all feeling from the waist down?

Why are you that fussed then OP? Why are you trying to get involved if everyone is so toxic? From your most recent update I would really say it’s none of your business what happens with your mothers care home. It sounds like it’s best for you if you kept out of it.

Gestapo = Nazi secret police. Perhaps don’t use that word if you don’t know the meaning.

Are there any cases where a council has clawed back “deprived” assets? I know they search, but has any council actually managed to obtain funds sunk into a relative’s property in which the relatives still occupy?

Giving the dsis the benefit of the doubt, things do change and often caring at home becomes not just impossible but body and soul-destroying. I know several people who have done the sinking of a parent’s money into a granny annexe arrangement in return for lifelong care, and in most cases it has gone pear-shaped. Few elderly people suddenly keel over neatly; there is unfortunaly usually a long, long, long period of decline.

@Florencenightingalewasfab you say your primary concern is your DM care however on numerous occasions you have mentioned money, and the value of your DSIS house, just out of interest do you regularly visit your DM?

OP doesn’t have access to her mother’s accounts so she doesn’t know how much her mum has. OP says the sister/bil have access to the mum’s account. Maybe there are savings? If the sister is saying the council will pay towards the cost of mum’s social care then this means the mum has less than £23k. The OP doesn’t know what financial arrangements the mum has made with sister and bil. It’s a guessing game. If the OP is really concerned about financial abuse then she’ll need to get some legal advice.

Yes, I rather agree with this - it’s crap if your family have cut you out, but it sounds like DSis and DM have worked it out ok for 7 years and now need to figure out next steps together.