Siblings want to put mum in a home

[Florencenightingalewasfab]

( I'll split this into two posts as it's quite long)Mum ( now in late 70's) sold her home and gave all the money to my sister for a 2 bed 'granny flat' ( to be built on the side of my sister's home. Sister took her money and built mum a ONE bedroom extension and also managed to gain a new bedroom into the bargain. So mum didn't get what she wanted and no one could come to stay in "her" flat, Sis used the 'extra' bedroom in her house - sorry - I digress. Mum dud this on the understanding that she wouldn't have to go into a ( old people's home ). Mum also gave full access to BIL and sis to her bank account

And ( obviously I can only surmise,) that, had mum been with me, I would have asked her ,( years ago when she moved in) if she wanted me to have power of attorney and then arranged for carers to come.

See a lawyer. Take a day off work mid-week and turn upunannounced and spend the day with her. Or visit her in the hospital lots of hospitals now allow a visitor to come outside normal visiting hours if they are coming from a long way. Ring them up and ask.

Maybe, when you know a bit more and if you still have concerns, you could call social services care of vulnerable adults and get a bit of advice.

I think your mum's actual needs and what she will agree to, and the money side, are two separate questions.

I would ask your mum for a family meeting at the hospital, to include your mum and anyone involved in her care, the doctors and very importantly the physiotherapists and occupational therapists. Get there if you can or attend remotely if there's no other way. Aim to sort out what the doctors and team really think the risks are and what your mum and sister say. If the team are recommending a pendant alarm, that will be because your mum is at risk of falls. If she won't wear an alarm and won't have carers, then the entire responsibility and worry about what to do when she falls will be up to your sister. What if she wants to go away on holiday, for the weekend or just out and about? Your mum could very easily die alone from a broken hip and hypothermia, lying in her own pee and unable to move. It might be her choice to do that, but you can see why your sister might not be too keen on being the responsible person involved.

Then the money - well, it doesn't sound great and might not have been well planned. But you say your mum is still mentally ok. Has she complained at all? There might need to be legal advice in the future, for sure.

I think you need to separate the issues here. One is the financial situation but the other is your mothers care needs, which have changed. The idea of making her a room on the understanding she won't have to go into a home is quite mad. Nobody can see the future and there was always going to be a high chance your mum would need residential care.

Hmm having seen first hand my mum and my husband's mum trying to look after their mothers in their own home I think you're being a bit naive here.

It's incredibly difficult, and if your mum is being obstinate and refusing reasonable things then I can see why your sibling is thinking a home might be a better option.

If your mum moved in with sis seven years ago, and is as difficult as she sounds, though sis had been crafty, she's put in the time. It's not like it's been seven months. And during that time you've been able to live your life free of responsibility for your mum.

She won't accept carers, an alarm or a nebulizer. That's a nightmare for the person responsible for her, to be fair.

Maybe you can convince her to accept all those things so she can stay in the granny flat (and annoy your sister for longer).

This is really messy.

On the face of it, your mum's assets haven't been protected. However do you know how they are left in the will?

More importantly, the existence of the annex doesn't mean that it's the right place for your mum to be at this stage. It may be. But if she's refusing the safeguarding being offered and refusing carers it does put your sister in an impossible position. To be fair to your sister, she won't have known that your mum would do this and it would be her trying to manage on her own. It's a huge responsibility and if she's at the point where your mum is being hospitalised frequently, the stress is probably starting to become unbearable. Annex or no annex, my guess is that your mum's care needs are probably too great for one family to safely manage and this is the important bit.

Don't cause a rift between yourself and your sister during your mum's last days, it's not worth it.

But she won't accept carers.

Seriously, you seem oblivious to what your sister has had to deal with all this time. It's a massive responsibility caring for an elderly parent. It restricts your own life even more than a small child does, because you can't just take her with you everywhere you go, but she's not safe left alone.

If your mum doesn’t want to go to a care home it’s her right. Social services do need to be involved and they can sort out carers if she needs them. For whatever reason she gave her money to your sister and you can’t do anything about it sadly. Does she have anything in writing that the money she gave was for her to live there etc?

Mum and dad divorced. Both remarried. Dad died years ago and when stepmum died, my siblings were round there the day after the funeral. Sister demanded she had SM jewellery sofa and fridge freezer bil took motobility scooter bro took all electrical items TVs etc. Do you know what I wanted ? Photos. I want nothing from.my mum - I'd rather she spent the whole lot on herself. I neither want or need anything.

7 years puts a different complexion on it and it's not so clear cut.

No, your sister likely doesn't want to have to come home every time to the worry that she'll find her mother dead or injured on the floor.

I suspect your sister is earning her extra bedroom with harder graft than you imagine.

Maybe a two storey extension/one up one down was all that planning permission would allow?

There aren’t enough details here really.

Your sis may be sneaky, but your dm lives with her, this is no walk in the park. It’s a huge responsibility and a lot of work.
When your mother is in hospital do you travel to visit her, or is it down to your sister as she’s local?

Under the circumstances, unless you’re willing to move closer, I think it’s ok for your sister to have her views, seeing as she is the one who is most affected.

Unless your siblings have pots of money to pay for a care home, there’s not a chance in hell that social services will fund this. They have no money. They will keep her at home with daily carers long, long after that becomes inadequate and a care home would be better. Genuinely - don’t worry about it. Not going to happen.

I suspect your sister is earning her extra bedroom with harder graft than you imagine.

Yep. I initially thought that as soon as the flat was finished, sis tried to get her in a home. But she's been responsible for her for a long time and it won't have been a walk in the park. And it certainly isn't now.

If mum refuses a home point blank, and also refuses carers and a alarm.(and medical support) sis is in an impossible situation.

I really think there's another side to this.

Sorry OP. It's so hard as your parents age. It's heart breaking and more than that...it takes a million phone calls.

I can't say anymore to you as I've been on the other side of this.

I asked your birth position before you gave a full reply (I know your intentions are good). I know I'm projecting my issues onto you but I'm guessing you are far from being the oldest.

Life is sometimes shit but it's no one's fault.

Why? She's spent seven years caring for her increasingly frail mother and we only have the op's word for the second bedroom - it might be that mum decided it was useless to have a second bedroom sitting empty for her when one of her grandchildren could be using it.

Why isn't the op more concerned about what is right for her mother given the history of falls and the impossibility of her sister dancing attendance 24/7.

If your mum needs to pay for care and the local authority do a financial assessment , they will look back to where her assets and property has gone and it will need to be declared. There is no limit to how long they can go back. They ask lots of questions on the form. I would make sure your sister is not able to lie on that form.

My mum lived with us for the last 10 years of her life (died at 84). It can be a delight and a privilege and really useful, as it was with mum. None of us ever resented her presence or involvement, but she was careful not to interfere unreasonably though that didn't atop her frequently telling me I was wrong! We had a good relationship with her; dh wished often that she had actually been HIS mum and dd adored her.

It doesn't sound like your sis finds having your mum there is like that.

You each need to have a chat with your mum about what SHE wants, why she's refusing the help on offer - especially the nebuliser. Does she feel that it would just ge easier on everyone if she collapsed and never came round again or something awful like that? If so, who is making her feel like that?

I know that at 84, mum felt it was time for her, that she'd had enough of being old, so when she was dx with cancer she rushed off to the doc and got herself a DNR notice. Her cancer was inoperable by the time it was dx, but she'd hung back on purpose really as she wanted it over and done with. It was, in a few months. Left us broken hearted and in shock, but I could see her point. There comes a point where increasing disability just becomes so booooooring (approaching that point myself).

So you need to egt there and talk to your mum. It can't be impossible to talk to her on her own in her own place, or in hospital, without sis or horrid husband butting in. With a bit of advance organisation and a crumb of cunning....

What do you mean, they demanded these things? It sounds like people were being encouraged to take whatever they wish which is normal for possessions not specifically listed in the will. Do you think the fridge should have been left as a shrine or something?

Not necessarily. My BIL has just been approved to move to a care home from an assessment unit, not totally with his full consent. He is unsafe at home, my DSis has just had surgery and cannot look after him forevermore, having been his carer increasingly for the last twenty years. He will make a contribution from his benefits and the state will fund the rest. They tried to send him home but each time it became clear that it is not in his best interests

So you need to egt there and talk to your mum. It can't be impossible to talk to her on her own in her own place, or in hospital, without sis or horrid husband butting in. With a bit of advance organisation and a crumb of cunning....

Yes I'm thinking that's one of the better ideas so far

I know what my mum wanted more than anything- for me and my siblings not to fight. And it's the hardest thing sometimes. Try to step back and look at the whole picture over time.

Ok.ill bite. The point I was making is in reply to a pp who said I was just after mums inheritance..........( And breathe)

Your mum needs legal advice she may be able to prove a beneficial interest in your sis house if she wants get money out - although it doesn’t sound like she does and it may then go on care fees anyway. Your sis needs legal advice whether care costs would attach to the granny flat or money for her extra bedroom it’s not definite the extra bedroom in particular wouldn’t be seen as deprivation of assets for care costs. If you think she’s being financially abused you can report to social services. But your mum will likely deny that and it will blow up family relations. If she has mental capacity that includes making bad choices like handing over control of her money and also refusing care. She’s only late 70’s FFS, not exactly ancient. Your sis can’t force her to go into a home or to accept help unless can prove your mum lacks capacity. Best interests decisions only apply if no capacity to make decision. There’s other tech eg something like an Alexa where can call if she has a fall or a family member can drop in via Alexa video or a ring camera etc. It doesn’t all have to be down to the family who live with her -you can support remotely with tech these days. I agree her health problems don’t seem anywhere near the threshold for going into a home and unlikely social services would fund one. You don’t go from needing a pendant and no carers to a care home place (even if you could find one).

This is tricky. Does your mum need. Care that your sister is unable to provide ? Was that agreement made when she was In Good health ?