Siblings want to put mum in a home

[Florencenightingalewasfab]

( I'll split this into two posts as it's quite long)Mum ( now in late 70's) sold her home and gave all the money to my sister for a 2 bed 'granny flat' ( to be built on the side of my sister's home. Sister took her money and built mum a ONE bedroom extension and also managed to gain a new bedroom into the bargain. So mum didn't get what she wanted and no one could come to stay in "her" flat, Sis used the 'extra' bedroom in her house - sorry - I digress. Mum dud this on the understanding that she wouldn't have to go into a ( old people's home ). Mum also gave full access to BIL and sis to her bank account

We don’t know how much the house sold for or how much the extension cost. I’m assuming (but don’t know) if the mum paid towards household expenses.

If she’d rented a purpose built oap flat in my area, she would’ve been paying approx £600 pcm plus bills = minimum of 850 pcm. In 7 yrs that’s over £71k.

@ChilliBandit I actually feel very sorry for the sister, I reckon she feels like she is being held over a barrel. Her mum refuses to do a few things to make everyone's life a little easier, meaning her care needs are much more complex then they need to be, or she faces potentially massive financial issues arranging care for her. All of this after looking after the mum for seven years already.

The strain on the sister's marriage and other commitments must be enormous. Then to add fuel to the fire she has her sister who hasn't lifted a finger by the sound of it, undermining her and comparing her to a Nazi! By the way OP, never refer to anyone as a Nazi, unless they actually are a neo Nazi, it's very, very inappropriate. I'm pleased that the sister has a support network in the other siblings, who I suspect know much more about the situation than OP does.

The choice was taken out of their hands due to lacking capacity. Being elderly isn’t for the feint hearted.

Well what’s done is done.
DM made her choices even if you think it was a bad one.
Late 70s is relatively young nowadays - I can’t see her being put in a home against her wishes.
But you could ask to be present when SS and / or occupational therapists are there to assess her. To make sure they get the correct facts . As for funding of care home fees - perhaps cab (citizens advise) can advise.

She can't decline care endlessly. Realistically if she's ending up in hospital frequently sand family members are unable to discharge the responsibilities identified by her social worker, there comes a time when she goes to hospital and can't pass the assessments needed to get back out to that specific environment. Then she's looking at respite nursing home care and potentially only has the opportunity to say no twice to nursing homes offered by SS before being obliged to accept the third one. There are plenty of people in care homes who didn't want to go. Sadly families today are just not set up to cater for advanced elderly needs in our family groups. We can barely manage child care.

You can't realistically expect your family members to watch that I'm afraid. The reality is an elderly person lying in their own excrement, endlessly calling an ambulance to support their lifestyle choices and haphazardly ending up in care while your next of kin is driven frantic and harassed by social workers asking them what they're going to do about you.

How much help have you offered to your mum before she moved and the annexe was built and since @Florencenightingalewasfab with regards to the judgement that you are levelling at your sister?

All those changes don't happen overnight or without all parties agreeing.

A bitch for caring for her mum for seven years and now finding that her care needs can no longer be safely met at home? Really?

I agree, it’s always the sibling who lives the furthest away who kicks up the most fuss. They normally just speak to their parent on the phone and have no idea of the day to day practicalities of caring for them. Always want their slice of the inheritance pie though.

OP, I am not sure what you were expecting? Your sister to pay for an annex out of her own pocket and then care for your mother so you still had inheritance? If your mother had stayed in her own home the money would be gone from carer fees anyway it sounds like and your mother probably would have still ended up in a home which her house would then be sold to pay for.

I think the thing is things change over time there is no way 7 years ago this could be forseen by those emotionally involved. For the more objective its obvious to be fair.

With regard to refusing care etc its not an option this needs to be worked on even if someone is introduce as a "cleaner" initially maybe for your sister to "free her time up for Mum", maybe making it part of her job to go for a cup of tea. We had this issue with my parents and it put a terrible strain particularly on the 3 girls - eventually we persuaded the more able parent that a cleaner wld be good, we had them come over and made having a chat part of it, then things worsened for the more able parent so we talked about having someone come to support them caring and helping with lifting so it was slowly slowly catchy monkey - this was on top of care provided by 6 siblings so in some ways we had it easy as there were so many of us, MIL was a diff story and I ended up doing that in full lockdown on my own couldn't even get the GP out fuckers, they sent a nurse and made me drag her downstairs to an open door for an exam!!!

In terms of the house situation, maybe suggest the one bed bit be rented out to a lodger (officially) and the money used to assist with paying for Mums care in some way - extras, clothes, nice snacks etc cos lets face it its a tip of an ocean against care fees.

After seven years of caring the thought of a lodger is awful. Let them have their home back. Caring for an aged parent affects, partner and children.

I agree 7 yrs is a long time - but it is also suspiciously the same amount of time that it is acceptable to take large lump sums from a parents estate so if it is truly an annex to the home it really won't be a big thing

I did not realise you were including the utilities and social input the sister has been providing that these flats provide. But £71k will still be way less than the house the mum sold and have the money to the sister. There is no money left.

@justasking111 The issue is it is not just their home, it is their mums as well and she has contributed financially to it.
Even if she is eligible for a care home Social Services will probably put a charge back on the sisters house in lieu of this.

@AllOutofEverything - depends where the mum and sister live, if there were any debts secured on the house like equity release. Did the Mum give over everything or just the amount to built the annex? Has the sister been paying for food. Live in carers can cost £40k a year.

We had to do a similar softly softly with my mum, she now has 3 care visits a day (paid privately). Took a long time to get her there!

I think both OP and her sister and other siblings are in a bind depending on how they sorted out DM's gift of money to OP's Sis who has looked after her for 7 years.

If DM doesn't want to move into a home she can't be forced to nor can she be forced to accept outside carers.

It sounds as if DSis needs to check her financial arrangement with her mum with a good solicitor. It sounds as if OP needs to visit DM with other siblings. And that they do research on local care homes.

The mum now has no money to pay for a care home so must have given over everything.
Are you really suggesting the sister effectively charges her mum for any care provided?
The sister has clearly ripped off her mum.

But that is why there needs to be a care assessment.
And if she can go home then the medics will probably just drop off the mum at the house. People do not understand how this all works. The state will do what it can to avoid paying for care.
I agree with you.
There's a huge push to avoid paying anything for care. It's why I have some sympathy for the OP's sister trying to push the situation by being unwilling to say everything is fine and let's get straight home. Squeaky wheels get the oil so to speak.

On a tangent it's why it laughable at a time when there's a refusal to accept older members of society need care,band a refusal to accept children might need a parent around, that there's a huge push to get everyone working silly work hours. Who do the government think is going to be providing all this ad hoc care?

I agree. Work out how much your mother would have had to pay for care during the last seven years, day in day out, with the assurance that night time help if needed was close by. I assume your mum has been included in family life, has been given clean clothes, clean bedding, a warm clean home, companionship, that her medical needs have been met, prescriptions dealt with, doctor and hospital appointments attended etc etc etc.

Hells bells, your sister has earned that extra bedroom with knobs on. I wonder how many times in that seven years you have said to her, “ hey, we’re thinking of coming up for a few days ,or a week, so you and BIL can have some time to yourselves and we will make sure mum has a good time so don’t worry about her.” Or “ we’ve booked a cottage for a week and really want to take mum too, what do you think?”

Are you really suggesting the sister effectively charges her mum for any care provided?

Op has said herself that someone is always with her mother, given that she refuses carers that someone is going to be her sister or her husband. How are they paying the bills on a family house with an annexe if they have restricted thier earning capabilities so they can care for the mum. What other expenses have they paid on the mother's behalf.

Where I live you can buy a small house or flat with less money than the cost a two story extension, so over 7 years someone in the sister's position could end up being very out of pocket. Obviously if the mum lived in Kensington that's a different story!

Op needs to dig a little deeper and think carefully before she decides to report her sister, otherwise she might end up looking very silly and estranged from her family.

I am sickened at the idea the sister should effectively charge her mother for including her in family life. Bloody hell.

Anyway Social Services will not agree. The sister's plan of getting the state to pay for a care home is unlikely to work. And Social Services will not subtract large amounts of money from the mothers assets because her daughter included her in family life.

@DangerNoodles It is a 1 bedroom extension. But who knows how much the mother has given the daughter over the 7 years? The average house price in the UK is £249,000