Siblings want to put mum in a home

[Florencenightingalewasfab]

( I'll split this into two posts as it's quite long)Mum ( now in late 70's) sold her home and gave all the money to my sister for a 2 bed 'granny flat' ( to be built on the side of my sister's home. Sister took her money and built mum a ONE bedroom extension and also managed to gain a new bedroom into the bargain. So mum didn't get what she wanted and no one could come to stay in "her" flat, Sis used the 'extra' bedroom in her house - sorry - I digress. Mum dud this on the understanding that she wouldn't have to go into a ( old people's home ). Mum also gave full access to BIL and sis to her bank account

There's actually a term for this 'daughter from california syndrome' where a family member who hasn't been there day to day is surprised at the deterioration of their parent and challenges the care that has been given and may have unrealistic expectations of what is medically feasible. It feeds off guilt and denial and not necessarily what is right for the parent.

You live an hour and a half away. Show up and be involved if you want an opinion. Shockingly your mothers care needs have changed in seven years and your sister is telling you she is not coping. If she's mobile enough to be getting up all the time but not willing to have support to get washed/wear a falls bracelet to reduce the risks then she absolutely will fall again. If she's being offered an at home neb I'm guessing there is an element of shortness of breath (maybe COPD?) Which makes things even harder on your sister rn. Someone unwilling to engage in the inventions put in place to keep them safe makes things a lot harder on their carer.

My in laws lived below their elderly parents and we had to pick them up off the floor at least once a week. If the carers didn't show up it was me in there getting them sorted. One night she laid on the floor all night sodden because she got up after being put to bed, fell and she refused to wear a falls alarm. He was constantly incontinent but refused pads and we were all up there scrubbing the carpets daily. And of course it was the siblings who lived in America who had a massive fallout when we said enough was enough and they needed 24 hour nursing care.

When you've visited your mum in the past, hio has she seemed? Did she seem well cared for, comfortable, comfortable in conversation - like her normal self - despite your sis's presence, or did she seem worried, or that she needed to be careful what she said? Did she talk about specific things your sis does for her, places she'd been, days out etc?

There's no doubt that sometimes dealing with an elderly parent is a hard thing to do. My own gm lived with us which is on reason my mum was aware of the pitfalls of living with a married dd and her children which is another reason why she was quite careful about the extent of her involvement. My gm and mum ironed things between them long before I would have been aware there might be problems and we all lived pretty happily together (just like dd, I adored my own gm!).

When my gm needed to have someone about all the time, it became difficult as us kids were all adults and working, though 2 of us still living at home. Mum and dad both working too. After a year of trying tojuggle everything, gm went to my aunt's who didn't work was at home, and within a few months had gone into a home as my aunt couldn't cope. Aunt had really REALLY wanted gm there, wanted to look after her. I don't doubt her intentions at all though I was angry at the time.

Your sis has probably saved you vast amounts of care home fees already though.

But yes, I think you need to bit the bullet, get there and find out what's going on in your mum's head.

Hmmmm …your DSis has shared her home with your mum and been responsible for her for 7 long years……thats puts a whole different spin on the situation…..and if your mum is refusing input that would reduce the risk of her coming to harm….then I can’t blame your DSis for suggesting a care home….it is what it is OP ….I don’t think deprivation of assets would apply in this case…maybe just need to let them get on with it

i think sis not doing 2 bed granny flat and doing an extra room for herself instead might be the critical point.
if your dm could have 2 bed flat then someone (a carer perhaps) could stay full time in her 2nd bedroom and she wouldnt need to go to a care home. thats what she thought at the beginning i suppose.
but i dont know how your sis got her extra bed room, how she convinced your dm.

You're doing yourself no favours trying to paint your sister as materialistic. She deserves your gratitude as there is no amount of money that can really cover the ongoing obligations and duty she's been shouldering to ensure your mum is cared for.

As much as your mum's wishes are important, it sounds like she is utterly intransigent on the subject of having help because she knows your sister is there and this is to her own detriment because your sister can't be everywhere at once. The stress of trying to keep her happy and safe may well be unbearable and the last thing they need is you turning up encouraging her to think your sister can manage when she can't.

Remember, you swan home without changing an incontinence pad, dressing an ulcer, ordering a mobility aid, fixing her glasses, sorting out the prescription mix up, finding out why she didn't take her last tablets, arranging a check up with the district nurse, doing a wash of all bedsheets, hiring a carpet cleaner, taking her to get her hair done and accompanying her into the garden at the very moment the children get home from school and the GP finally calls. Your sister probably does an increasing amount of this on repeat for months. If she also works, she's sunk. You need to cut your sister some slack as it's hard to imagine what caring for an elderly relative can be like until you're doing it. I have done it and baby triplets would have been easier.

Really, the money is the least important thing here. Getting your mum the help she needs and making her as happy as she safely can be without jeopardizing the wellbeing of your sister's family is the priory.

It was naive for anyone to think a blanket reassurance could be given regarding residential care but it doesn't mean your sister is not in good faith. I think she's shown that she is, if your mum chose to move closer to her. Are you sure you're not just feeling out of the loop?

I would ask for a referral to social services and tell them you think your mum is being financially abused.

Make sure the hospital is aware.

Almost no one can afford a live in carer. It is thousands and thousands a month.

So is a care home. The ones near me are around £8,000 a.month..

You're completely wrong to think a live in carer is cheaper. Most people would prefer this option but few can afford it. A live in care package can be that amount a week.

I cant help thinking your sister has shot herself in the foot, she'll be on the hook for carehome fees...surely?

This this this. When you have emptied the catheter bags, then you get a fucking say.

There is a difference between a live-in carer and a care package. A care package will cost more because it will involve other services with larger overheads who will charge you more. A private live-in carer works out much cheaper. Can be as little as £900 a week if it's not a complicated client. And it's better quality of care because you are paying someone a decent wage directly, rather than having a company provide someone on £9 an hour.

Where did I say it was cheaper? You said that a live in carer costs thousands and thousands a month. So does a care home.

Unless she is assessed as needing to be in a home the state will not pay for that anyway. It sounds like she does not need to if her only real issue is being at risk of falling. So she will either have to return to where she was living or rent somewhere on her pension.

And I know risk of falling is a real issue. But loads of people living at home alone are at risk of falling. It is why those neck call systems are so commonly used.

Care package would be 2-4 visits per day. One hour approx £20-25 per hour but Social Services will try to get away with 15-30 minute visits, so max £50 per day, probably less.

I agree that you need to speak to your Mum on her own-take a couple of days off and just show up.You need more than one day to really appreciate her current state of health though-it may be that what she says doesn’t gel with the reality, IYSWIM.

Also, get a referral to Social Services for an assessment. SS have been v. helpful with my Dad’s (85) needs.

I think to be honest your sister has gone as far as she can go with caring for your Mum if your Mum is refusing carers in and sister isn’t able to be present 24/7.

It simply isn’t safe (said as someone who has cared for multiple elderly).

Your sister was good enough to take your Mum in for the time that she has been able to - I’m taking it you and the rest weren’t up for the job? But now that time has passed.

From what I can see it’s your Mum who instigated the move to your sisters and the necessary renovations. And it is your Mum again who is refusing carers to come in to facilitate the arrangement to continue.

There could be any number of planning regs that dictated the Granny flat could not progress as a two bed. Unless you are privy to what went on there, maybe stop jumping to conclusions.

Yes it’s unfair that your sister will benefit more than the rest of you when Mum passes away. But your mother dictated and continues to dictate all of this so ultimately you’re getting annoyed at the wrong person.

@Robinni Everyone is assuming it is not safe for the mother to be home alone, but we have no idea of that at all. Even sister is not suggesting that. She is suggesting carers and a neck call alarm. She would be alone at home.

I see your sisters point

You're expecting her to look after your DM

She can't and quite frankly it takes up all her time to do so regardless of what was agreed before.

My DM and her siblings had this argument about their DM

The ones arguing for her to stay at home were of course the ones not having to look after her and they didn't want the expense of a home

this

@AllOutofEverything

The mother needs an alarm and a care package to continue living at home.

She is refusing an alarm and a care package. Therefore it is not safe for her to remain as her care needs are not being met.

In agreement that LA may say no room at the inn until all other avenues exhausted, so the Mum may shortly just have to accept carers/alarm.

Unfortunately, this acquiescence does not usually occur until they have a really bad fall and end up having bad breaks/getting burnt by lying in urine etc. Then they get scared and accept.

OP you don’t want your mother in that state. Try and convince her to take the care package etc. if she wants to avoid further trauma and to delay going into a home.

If you aren’t the one doing the day to day care, you don’t get a say in if it has become too much. Your sister is allowed to be done.

financially, are you even sure that your sister has taken your mother’s money. Just being given access doesn’t mean she is spending it on herself or that it has been commingled with her own finances. With elder care, the family member may simply be added to the account so they can do the senior’s shopping and pay the senior’s bills more easily.

Around 7 ish years ago I think

I think 7 years needs to pass for assets not to be taxed if they are gifted. I reckon your sis waited 7 years so the assets could not be clawed back & used for care home fees.

I don't know enough about it all but it seems she has done you out of inheritance. Did your Mum go to help with childcare?

@Ponderingwindow I agree the sister is allowed to say she will not give any more care. The complicating factor is that in that situation normally an adult - her mum - can still decide to return to her home if she wishes, with or without the care. In this case the sister is saying the mum can not return to her home.