Siblings want to put mum in a home

[Florencenightingalewasfab]

( I'll split this into two posts as it's quite long)Mum ( now in late 70's) sold her home and gave all the money to my sister for a 2 bed 'granny flat' ( to be built on the side of my sister's home. Sister took her money and built mum a ONE bedroom extension and also managed to gain a new bedroom into the bargain. So mum didn't get what she wanted and no one could come to stay in "her" flat, Sis used the 'extra' bedroom in her house - sorry - I digress. Mum dud this on the understanding that she wouldn't have to go into a ( old people's home ). Mum also gave full access to BIL and sis to her bank account

But if the sister does not allow her mum back home, she will make her homeless.

On the face of it it sounds as though your mother has been the sacrificial lamb to your sisters greed. But that’s what can happen when you make decisions like this.

Do you know anything about the planning situation OP? Your mum's original plans may not have been possible, therefore an annexe with an extra room in the main house may have been the best compromise.

It would be very interesting to hear the sister's side of things.

Nowhere has it been said that the sister won't allow her back. Simply that she and the other siblings think that she'd be better in a care home.

And to be honest, given how stubborn the mother is being about refusing a nebulizer, carers and an alarm, I can see their point.
Talking responsibility for someone who needs those things but refuses them is a massive ask. And actually quite scary.

Me too, especially given the OP lives a fair way away and doesn’t seem to have done any caring herself.

But they have no idea if the state will even pay for a care home.
And the mother can refuse. She can say instead if you will not allow me home then I need a rented flat and no carers.

Sister can say she will not provide care. She can not say her mother has to go into a care home.

Yes. We know all that. But she is not refusing to have her mother back. Or if she is, OP hasn't mentioned it. And given how she feels about her sister, I think she'd have told us if that was the case.

Sorry I’m going play devil’s advocate here because caring for elderly people at home can become difficult. In fairness your mum has lived with your family for 7 years. If she’d lived independently she would’ve either had to rent or buy a suitable place which may have wiped out her savings?

When was the last time you saw your mum? It could be she is much more frail and unsteady? Her purpose built granny flat could enable her to stay put but she’ll need the alarm, carers and equipment. If she’s a falls risk but is refusing carers then she won’t be able to have a shower by herself. Is your mum becoming incontinent? Does she have early signs of dementia? Again it would be difficult to manage this without extra care.

A lot of elderly people refuse this extra help and don’t want to go into residential care which places the onus on relatives to provide care. They will need to dress, change, shower/wash her and provide meals so will need to be on hand 3-4 times a day to do this. Do they have care experience? They will also need to check her regularly to make sure she hasn’t fallen over both during the day and night.

Regarding the granny flat extension: did they ever explain why they couldn’t provide the extra bedroom? Were there practical difficulties in extending the floor space?

@Celinia She had a house she owned.

And I am never going in a home. I would rather die at home from a fall than go in a home.

But if the sister does not allow her mum back home, she will make her homeless.
When I was the nearest family contact for a relative who didn't want carers, I read threads where family members were advised not to take relatives home when the relative needed social care as it becomes a very easy way for local authorities and social care to tick a box saying "care is provided by the family so they're safe to discharge/we don't need to be involved". This leaves the family (who may have children as well to raise) in an awful situation of wanting to make sure their relative is safe, but not wanting to pause their whole lives for an unspecified amount of time because social care find excuses not to provide care.

OP's sister has provided 7 years of care to her mum, her mum's health has deteriorated and she's refusing to take the reasonable steps that would support her safety. OP's mum has capacity to make that decision but it is a huge responsibility for OP's sister who, understandably, would feel worried about being away from the house for a day or more because she knows her mother might fall, isn't using her nebuliser and won't wear a care alarm to alert anyone if she falls.

The OP is looking at the money and not at the practical reality of caring for an aging relative.

I did ask how mums care fees would be funded and was informed that the state would pay as she has no house to sell!!

The council won't pay.

Your sister had been very unwise and unless she has the cash in the bank she can pay your mum back, she's going to be in a whole heap of bother. The council will be all over this for deprivation of assets.

My mother in law has said the same, but she has also said she has planned her finances around paying for carers if that needs to happen.

I think a lot of elderly people do not realise the amount of work they expect younger family to put into helping them, even if just subconsciously. The amount of people I know with grandparents who think they are independent when really their children are tearing their hair out supporting this “independence”. Because really unless there are reasons such as abuse etc, people don’t tend to want to let their parents die alone at home from a fall.

@LolaSmiles I know and I agree with that approach to not providing care if it is your house. But it is one of the real downsides of an extension to house your elderly mum that the sister has done. Because you can't evict someone from their own house. If DH needed care and I want carers I can refuse to provide care and refuse to pick him up from the hospital. I can not stop him entering the house though with help from a medic.

If the mum only needs carers popping in and a call alarm then the state is very unlikely to pay for a care home. She will be expected to either return home and have carers or to refuse carers - the choice is hers. Or to move into a rented flat with carers or no carers.

@ChilliBandit We had to leave father in law without care as he refused carers and we had reached the stage where closest family could no longer cope. He lasted ten days and then gave in and accepted carers. I am sure he had a truly shit 10 days, but we had to be tough.
My children have a life limiting disability so I will be sorting out my own care. There will be no one else to do it.

@AllOutofEverything “Celinia She had a house she owned.” Yes I’m aware of that.

@AllOutofEverything - I am sorry to hear that.

@Celinia So the stuff about how she would have spent that same amount of money buying a house or renting is not true. She had a house and gave the money to her DD. Rents are high at the moment, but it would have to be a remarkably cheap house to equate to the market rent for a 1 bedroom extension.

@ChilliBandit Thanks, it is fine. Just reality.

AllOutofEverything
Agreed that it's an unforeseen consequences of doing a granny flat extension. You're right that the sister can't prevent a medic dropping her mother off at the door though.

There was a thread on here years ago now about a wife saying to hospital that she couldn't provide the post -op care her husband needed so he either needed to remain in hospital until he was fit to be independent or a care plan needed implementing.

I think the thing that jumps out to me on this thread is that the OP's other siblings are in agreement with her sister, which makes the whole thread seem like yet another thread where the child who is miles away and not involved suddenly develops an interest when they think their inheritance might disappear.

We’ve recently been in this situation where an elderly relative did not want to go in a home. They spent time in and out of hospital because of infections and falls.

Your sister is a bitch and has had your mum and all of you over. Why did you allow all this to happen and not put a stop to it. But you know this. So what are you going to do now?

If your Mum wants to stay at your sisters she has to accept carers coming in. It's unfair on your sister and brother-in-law to be fulltime carers with no respite. They have made sure your Mum is ok for the last 7 years, presumably helped her out daily but needing 24hr care is different.

@Florencenightingalewasfab you are painting your sister and BIL in a very bad light. They've been doing the lions share of sorting your Mum out for the last 7 years. What do you think should happen, that your Mum should still live there, refuse carers and your sister and BIL should do this indefinitely? If you don't want your Mum to go into a home have you offered her a room at yours?

@Celinia I am sorry to hear that, but that is their choice. Most care homes are pretty shit places unless you are happy with regimentation and communal living. Quality of life matters more than just quantity.

But that is why there needs to be a care assessment.
And if she can go home then the medics will probably just drop off the mum at the house. People do not understand how this all works. The state will do what it can to avoid paying for care.