Advice please: Elderly mil cannot carry on living with me

[joystir59]

Sorry if this is a bit long:
My DW died in July. Her mum had been living with us for some years at this point. There is another daughter who is very hands off and lives approx 200 miles away
Mil is 87, poor sight, poor hearing, bad mobility, not able to manage her own affairs or communicate without extensive help, struggles to use the shower. I support her with shopping, laundry and overseeing things like GP reviews. She hasn't left the house for years. She is reclusive and uncooperative, will not grant her surviving daughter LPA, hasn't written a will, doesn't like anyone coming in to provide care or support e.g. if I want to go away. She is scared of being left alone at night and not able to leave the house unaided.
I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.
I understand she will need a Care Needs Assessment. Does anyone know if this can be done here where she now lives but then be used by the local authority in her daughter's area? Does anyone know how difficult it is to get an assessment that a residential home is needed?).
Any advice on any aspect of the process gratefully received.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

You may find your opinion and that of social care do not coincide however. Thresholds are often higher than a lay person would realise. It's not just a matter of a preference for residential care (unless you are self funding) it has to be a necessity. Most people in care homes these days have dementia to be honest or severe physical disabilities as the ones who are just frail are supported at home.

If she doesn't have dementia or some other official diagnosis to point to a lack of decision making capacity it's likely she will be deemed to have it. It's a low bar.

It's actually quite hard to get someone assessed as needing residential care if they haven't tried a care package at home. Generally it would be things like needing care at night or unpredictability outside the hours of a care package eg with toileting or being unsafe alone outside care hours eg falling or wandering. Needing help washing, dressing and with meals and meds would usually be managed with a care package. Shopping and cleaning are very hard to get care for and aren't viewed as priority needs.

The LA has a duty to preserve public funds and the social worker has to justify their funding request to a panel.

This is why I suggest you major on the fact she will be homeless in x weeks and let them do their thing as to where they place her after that. If the timeline is short then she might get residential respite care at first.

IME this is absolutely correct, very truthful and valuable advice. Exactly the situation I experienced.

I think it's very cruel to attack the OP for not wanting to sacrifice her own wellbeing to care for this very difficult elderly woman who didnt ought to be her problem in the first place

I totally agree with this. With the best will in the world it is rarely going to work out with someone taking care of their in-laws when the actual son or daughter has died. It sounds as though the OP has a bit of a struggle on their hands, and frankly I would be reserving my judgement for the other DD who should be stepping up to organise care for her DM.

Good luck OP, and I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your DW

Well done for getting things set in motion. You are in a really difficult position and you are not being unreasonable to insist that it ends.

Tbh I think you need to kick up more of a fuss about being expected to cope with the status quo for 28 more days while they do nothing. That might be taken as evidence that the need for change isn't really that urgent. I think you should insist on some help in the meantime to alleviate the pressure on you, rather than meekly accepting your lot until such time as they are ready to act.

Oh and my DF had advanced Alzheimer’s and it was still a very stressful and upsetting time trying to the situation sorted.

Also if she eventually gets placed, and has no money she will not be in the nicest of care homes, be prepared for that. They may have kind staff but their budgets will be much smaller and those little extras will be missing.

Finally consider Covid. Lots of homes cannot offer places unless they are Covid free and the new resident has to go into isolation in their room for two weeks. Imagine the distress for the elderly person and their loved ones.

I don’t envy you OP.

@Homebird8

warn them that you are at the absolute end of your tether and cannot guarantee that you will not have a breakdown and harm her if she isn’t moved elsewhere very sharpish

Don’t say you may harm her. That would be a threat.

It’s not a threat at all, it’s making them aware you are at the end of your tether. Anyone at the end of their tether can harm anyone else. It’s quite different from saying: ‘If you don’t get her out of my house I’m going to harm her.’

Hopefully none of us will ever get old and become burdens like the MIL here. Oh wait...

I get that the OP does not want and should not have to provide long term care to someone to whom she is not related.

So I am not judging her with a caveat unless she has benefitted hugely financially from the MIL moving in with the agreement that care would be provided. I am judging the other daughter who should've stepped up but we don't know the whole story.

But this thread has left a bad taste in my mouth. As a society we treat elderly dogs better.

I too suspect that you will have to chivvy Social Services along. Local criteria for services would place your MIL as ‘Low Risk’ because she is housed, fed and has 24 hours a day support ☹️. I had to resort to seeing my GP to reinforce the urgency of a similar situation several years ago when I found myself caring for an elderly, extremely stubborn lady who I barely knew! I was silly enough to go to her assistance when she fell and broke both wrists. Social Services really didn’t want to know.
Good luck OP 💐

Busy not insulting. Just fact. It isn't MIL house.

We are responsible for our own well being as we age. Saving for care, downsizing, paying for outside help, utilising social services, moving to a care home if needed etc. No one else.

@THisbackwithavengeance

Hopefully none of us will ever get old and become burdens like the MIL here. Oh wait...

I get that the OP does not want and should not have to provide long term care to someone to whom she is not related.

So I am not judging her with a caveat unless she has benefitted hugely financially from the MIL moving in with the agreement that care would be provided. I am judging the other daughter who should've stepped up but we don't know the whole story.

But this thread has left a bad taste in my mouth. As a society we treat elderly dogs better.

Well obviously we will, and I for one intend to make suitable provision.

I will not be wholly dependent on one of my D.C. or their spouses for every aspect of my care. I will not force someone to care for me with no respite day in day out.

Joystir, I'm so sorry you weren't able to resolve this already. I remember your previous thread where you were trying to get her daughter to step up, get carers in etc. Clearly none of that worked and here you still are.

Don't let SS think you have it in hand. This has been going on for a long time. You need time and space to grieve and rebuild.

Enough with those who are judging when they know so little.

How about her DD tho? Why isn't she being hauled over the coals for having fuck all to do with her mum? Why isn't she stepping up? Because it's easier to force joystir59 to do it.

You can’t force someone to take on caring duties 🤷‍♀️

Plus you can’t chastise the OP for saying ‘enough’ and then on another thread (and there are countless) criticise those who hope that grandparents will take on caring duties for grandchildren. It seems huge hypocrisy to say on the one hand we are all responsible for ourselves and should not expect any help, but then dictate they are responsible for the care of their elderly family when they become too infirm to live independently.

Older generations have benefitted massively from the houses that have increased in value and made many of them small fortunes. That money should then be used to finance care if needed. In this example it sounds as though OPs MIL has no assets, if she did I would bet you her surviving daughter would be VERY interested in her mother’s care.

But Busy, she has refused a care package!

She may be elderly and needy, but she can't refuse assistance and still expect to be looked after. She has refused to have carers in, has refused to pay for extra care, has refused to take responsibility for herself.

I'd imagine if she'd compromised at all this situation may not have arisen.

You can't stay in a house (which isn't even yours and which you don't contribute to), unable to look after yourself.

It's sad, but inevitable. OP can't look after her on her own, and MiL refuses anyone else's assistance. How is that sustainable?

Mil and dw BOTH agreed with the move and this was obviously a good solution and no doubt one the DW would have assumed that op would honour.

OP has already said that even with two of them looking afer MIL, the move to a care home was becoming necessary. She has also said that her wife did not expect her to take over MIL's care.

And though several people have asked, you have still not said why you're reserving your criticism for OP and not the MIL's actual daughter, who isn't getting involved at all.

The biggest question here is whether OP benefited financially from having MIL move in at the time.....if OP did then the thread has a whole different atmosphere

@ivfbeenbusy

The biggest question here is whether OP benefited financially from having MIL move in at the time.....if OP did then the thread has a whole different atmosphere

Why? If MIL is contributing anything, that will end when she goes into care.So there's no financial gain to OP's decision.

@BusyLizzie61

So you think the OP's MIL should stay in the house, and the OP dedicate her life to caring for her? when she has another child who doesn't want to know? if so, could you explain why? because that sounds really unfair to the OP to me

Busy is indeed busy, on this and another thread with similar slightly judgy advice . OP, you have done your best. I really don't see the benefit on nailing yourself on a cross for this, and it is plain your mil isn't happy either. Regarding your sil's reluctance to be involved, I think she may possibly have a story of mil being a very difficult parent, is that possible? I don't think it excuses a total lack of engaging with the situation, but it might go some way to explain it.

@saraclara

Mil and dw BOTH agreed with the move and this was obviously a good solution and no doubt one the DW would have assumed that op would honour.

OP has already said that even with two of them looking afer MIL, the move to a care home was becoming necessary. She has also said that her wife did not expect her to take over MIL's care.

And though several people have asked, you have still not said why you're reserving your criticism for OP and not the MIL's actual daughter, who isn't getting involved at all.

Tbh, there's no difference in my opinion of the op or the still alive daughter. Both are very low in my estimations with regatds the mil/mother.

As for the mil not contributing, she'd be eligible for housing benefit.

There will be a financial assessment as well as a care needs assessment

If eg an elderly person paid for alterations to make an annex for them to move in (very common) then they benefited from that which is fine. It's their money they can spend it to their own benefit. Social care will have no interest in that. Similarly a contribution to costs or bills or in lieu of rent isn't unreasonable and will be disregarded.

The 7 year thing is for inheritance and not relevant to care costs.

What's not fine is if MIL gave away a substantial sum eg to OP's wife whilst knowing she would need care then she could be treated as still having access to this money (deprivation of assets) and would have to pay for her care.

Social care certainly can't make OP sell her house or anything whatever contribution might have been made.

You don't know if she's eligible, Busy. She could be very wealthy, or she could be very hard up.
We know from this thread, she won't pay for carers. She'd only need to pay for carers if she had savings.

I pity your D.C. and their spouse, Busy, if you think this is an acceptable situation.

@joystir59 I think you sound like a reasonable and sensible woman who shouldn't feel an ounce of guilt. Why the hell should you be an unpaid carer for someone who's ultimately not your parent and has been unkind about you!

Word of warning - adult social services will use any means to keep her with you for as long as possible, including guilt, so they don't have to foot the bill until absolutely necessary

@saraclara

Because OP says that MIL has no assets? It's quite common for older parents to sell their home and the funds be used to purchase a home for their children in their name and the elderly parent live with them thereby avoiding inheritance tax and also the requirement to fund their own care in the future..... but the children have the benefit of a "free" house in their name

We treat elderly dogs better
Really we put aside our own well-being to care 24/7 for elderly dogs ....for years on end🤔
I thought we just euthanized them when they become too much of a burden and have no quality of life?