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Elderly parents
Original poster

Advice please: Elderly mil cannot carry on living with me

475 replies

joystir59 · 28/02/2021 18:36

Sorry if this is a bit long:
My DW died in July. Her mum had been living with us for some years at this point. There is another daughter who is very hands off and lives approx 200 miles away
Mil is 87, poor sight, poor hearing, bad mobility, not able to manage her own affairs or communicate without extensive help, struggles to use the shower. I support her with shopping, laundry and overseeing things like GP reviews. She hasn't left the house for years. She is reclusive and uncooperative, will not grant her surviving daughter LPA, hasn't written a will, doesn't like anyone coming in to provide care or support e.g. if I want to go away. She is scared of being left alone at night and not able to leave the house unaided.
I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.
I understand she will need a Care Needs Assessment. Does anyone know if this can be done here where she now lives but then be used by the local authority in her daughter's area? Does anyone know how difficult it is to get an assessment that a residential home is needed?).
Any advice on any aspect of the process gratefully received.

OP posts:
oil0W0lio · 02/03/2021 13:23

Would it be an option to tell social services that you now have a job requiring you to work away for long periods and are able to care for her?

oil0W0lio · 02/03/2021 13:24

@joystir59

And if she refuses i will be reiterating that this is an example of why she cannot stay here.
Or you could just go and leave her to it then she will realise that she cannot continue to blackmail you
okokok000 · 02/03/2021 13:24

Apologies my last post crossed with yours. Ignore!

picklemewalnuts · 02/03/2021 13:25

Good luck, Joystir, you absolutely deserve it. You need to do what works for you- go away for a weekend, go out all day, make very clear to SS and MiL that you are not responsible for her in any way.

I know her daughter has refused responsibility, but could you recruit her to hassle social services? So no personal involvement but long distance involvement in getting something else organised.

She can tell them she's worried about her mother, that she can't be directly involved for personal reasons but that the situation needs resolving as her mum is basically homeless.

That may be what would help resolve it, at least cost (effort, emotion) to you.

ThanksThanks

doodleZ1 · 02/03/2021 13:26

When my father-in-law got an assessment he told the lady that no one was attending to him. He was quite indignant as well as telling her that he does his own shopping (total nonsense) and goes for long walks in the park. A man that couldn't get himself up from his chair without using 2 sticks. I had to intervene as the bad daughter-in-law and tell the woman that he was talking about the past and not what he does atm. The assessor had to remind him she needed to know what he does now on a daily basis and not in the past. The assessor told him straight that if someone was doing your shopping you were being attended to. He accepted that as she seemed an authority figure and wasn't a relative! She was excellent and also looked in his fridge and found mouldy food. He has attendance allowance as a result but is still not prepared to spend it to eg get someone to cut his grass. He relies on his children to run round running his life. Especially his daughter. As you say though if she won't spend the money what's the point. Also I concur with the idea that your aim is not getting money to make it work your aim is to get her looked after elsewhere. Best wishes to you.

AcornAutumn · 02/03/2021 13:41

To those saying apply for Attendance Allowance

Why should OP be involved to that extent?

SilverBirchWithout · 02/03/2021 13:41

@joystir59

Mil has too much in savings to qualify for any benefits and is too paranoid to apply for anything anyway.
Attendance allowance does not look at a person’s savings.
oil0W0lio · 02/03/2021 13:43

Don't apply for anything, if you do you are picking up the ball and running with it and by implication acknowledging that it is your ball... that this is your problem
Maybe stop having conversations with her about her needs, just focus on your own?

AcornAutumn · 02/03/2021 13:57

@oil0W0lio

Don't apply for anything, if you do you are picking up the ball and running with it and by implication acknowledging that it is your ball... that this is your problem Maybe stop having conversations with her about her needs, just focus on your own?
Exactly.
HyacynthBucket · 02/03/2021 14:01

OP I am so sorry for your loss last year, and the difficulty you are now in with your MIL. Is it possible that there could be a halfway solution between living in yours and residential care? Possibly a retirement flat of her own with carers coming in? I know she is resistant to carers, but that would be the reality in a home anyway.

When my own DM who lived on her own needed help, she resisted it too - even sackec the care company, because quite honestly they were awful, and made life even more difficult for her, which I witnessed first hand while trying to get it to work.
Since then my DP and I have had a similar situation with his widowed DF who lives alone but has increasing care needs as his physical condition has deteriorated. The first care company were just not good enough. No one realises until this happens how destructive a poor company can be, with multiple carers coming at all hours, or not coming at all, and carers without skills to do the most basic jobs. My poor DFIL actually went out of his mind temporarily because of the stress they caused him. And then we found what must be the best care company ever - a small local one who are absolutely brilliant. His carers come in 4 times a day to do physical care and make meals, and it has given him his life back. They are professional and devoted and really do care. So the difference between a good care company (his is paid for and not particularly cheap), and poor care is off the scale in terms of the difference it makes.

So is it possible for your MIL to live in her own place but have high level care including overnights? It could still work out cheaper than residential, and Attendance Allowance goes up when overnight care is needed.

Bargebill19 · 02/03/2021 14:03

Op. I think you are getting along with what life has dealt you in a VERY caring and positive manner.
You have identified your mil needs succinctly and are dealing with getting her appropriate help and accommodation. The fact that you are doing this whilst still grieving, thus putting your mil need far above your own, shows you care. Further more, you haven’t ‘granny dumped’ her not have you left things get to a point where someone is injured, before seeking help.
Anyone who thinks any different needs give their head a wobble.
Not many would be able to carry on as you have done in this situation. Dealing with frail elderly individuals really does take a village not an individual.

Fingers are crossed for a quick, positive outcome.

HyacynthBucket · 02/03/2021 14:03

I also meant to say that you can fill in Attendance Allowance application form on behalf of the other person, though they do need to sign it.

TheyIsMyFamily · 02/03/2021 14:07

I'm sorry for the loss of your wife, OP.

I would make it clear to SS that she needs to be relocated and give them a deadline when she will no longer have a place to live with you. OTW they will drag their feet.

DishingOutDone · 02/03/2021 14:07

Just a tip that might help OP; I was recently supporting a friend to have her husband placed in residential care he was in his 60s but needed full time care. Before any funding was agreed we went to visit the settings she was interested in and then when we found one she thought looked good that home then supported her to get the funding - so almost like succeeding in putting the cart before the horse.

Because its in their interests to have that potential resident fill a vacant room within the month the administrators at these homes are expert in getting funding - so might be an option? They rang SS to get the assessment sorted out and the whole process was super quick. You could get help and support through the process, everyone wins and you get to pick whatever you think is the best residential for your MiL.

fabulousathome · 02/03/2021 14:08

I think I am correct in saying that you cannot claim Attendance Allowance if you are in a care home with the Council paying for fees (at least you can't claim it after you've been in a care home for four weeks or more - some bizare rule).

It sounds as if MIL is not going to be capable of living in some kind of sheltered accommodation with multiple carers so probably best for her to have one move (to a care home) rather than two moves.

I think you need have no guilt at all. The situation current sounds horrible.

oil0W0lio · 02/03/2021 14:12

Dealing with frail elderly individuals really does take a village not an individual
It takes a village, problem is most of the people in the village are now also frail ...

dottiedodah · 02/03/2021 14:14

Firstly you have zero to be guilty about! Please ignore some of these people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about clearly! My own DM was living in a Retirement home and became ill .I had to tell the SW that I was coming into her office and staying there until a place had been found! You really have to push and push hard Im afraid.Dont give up!(A place was found within 30 mins BTW!)My DM had taken to wandering around at nights and the police were called out .So very stressful.The other daughter should step up of course ,but seems to want nothing to do with it?!Sending hugs to you xx

Shallysally · 02/03/2021 14:51

Joystir if your MIL has over £24500 in savings then she will self fund any support until she drops below that threshold. So the issue with adult services won’t be one of funding agreement.
It will be one of the decision to either rehouse her and help to find home care for her, which as you have previously said she does not want, or support to find a residential placement.

This is dependent on her capacity. However, even if she is deemed fit lack capacity and still refuses to actually get into transport to take her to the home there could be further problems, but skilled social care workers should be able to support in that situation.

You have started the ball rolling. Don’t let it become too long with no contact from adult services, give it a couple of weeks. Also, have a look at carer services, even if it’s just a friendly ear you might benefit.

TheSilveryPussycat · 02/03/2021 15:03

@TheSilveryPussycat

Your MIL sounds as if she would qualify for Attendance Allowance, which is not means tested.
I agree probably not good to apply for AA in this case. (By the by, it doesn't go on specific conditions, it's about what you can and can't do.)

If you are in a care home, you can only get it if you are self-funding.

AcornAutumn · 02/03/2021 15:04

@oil0W0lio

Dealing with frail elderly individuals really does take a village not an individual It takes a village, problem is most of the people in the village are now also frail ...
I think the real issue is no one in the village wants to do it, understandably.

And in the midst of all this, medics seem to want us living longer 😱😱

Notverygrownup · 02/03/2021 15:23

OP certainly no judgement from me here.

Just a thought. If your MIL ever needs to go into hospital, there will be a discharge team who have to assess whether it is safe for her to come home. If you inform them that it is not safe for her to do so, as you are not there all of the time, she would have a fresh assessment of her needs whilst in hospital and you may well find that she would then get a place in a home quicker - I certainly found it much easier to get things moving from the hospital when looking after my relatives. However, I had not realised that I needed to contact the hospital social work team and take the initiative to contact the discharge team to ensure that they knew the situation at home. (One wheelchair user had cheerfully told them that she could bath and shower herself and make her own way to the toilet. By chance I was passing and able to point to the wheelchair, and ask how she was meant to climb the stairs in it! They had taken her word that "she was fine"!)

Bargebill19 · 02/03/2021 15:24

By village I mean a cohort of individuals as found in a care home. Not in the community.

Community care has its place. But not in the OPs situation.

Original poster
joystir59 · 02/03/2021 15:54

Social Care coming to assess mil on Thursday.

OP posts:
Original poster
joystir59 · 02/03/2021 15:55

Thank you so much for all of your support and advice- I am researching local residential provision. Mil being cooperative at the moment, is going to get her latest bank statement out ready!

OP posts:
Shallysally · 02/03/2021 15:58

Ah that is good news Joystir! Let’s hope this is the start of a positive change for you both.