Advice please: Elderly mil cannot carry on living with me

[joystir59]

Sorry if this is a bit long:
My DW died in July. Her mum had been living with us for some years at this point. There is another daughter who is very hands off and lives approx 200 miles away
Mil is 87, poor sight, poor hearing, bad mobility, not able to manage her own affairs or communicate without extensive help, struggles to use the shower. I support her with shopping, laundry and overseeing things like GP reviews. She hasn't left the house for years. She is reclusive and uncooperative, will not grant her surviving daughter LPA, hasn't written a will, doesn't like anyone coming in to provide care or support e.g. if I want to go away. She is scared of being left alone at night and not able to leave the house unaided.
I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.
I understand she will need a Care Needs Assessment. Does anyone know if this can be done here where she now lives but then be used by the local authority in her daughter's area? Does anyone know how difficult it is to get an assessment that a residential home is needed?).
Any advice on any aspect of the process gratefully received.

CovoidOfAllHumanity thank you. It’s a sad situation, I can absolutely see OP’s view too. Just stating that the worker will ask these questions, obviously the mother in laws well-being is part of the assessment.

No you aren’t being cynical at all. It’s not an easy situation.

I agree with other posters though who say to push the local authority. You will need to be persistent OP.

Although it may seem to many that she is shirking the other daughter does not have a legal duty of care here, as said you need to be ruthless and go straight to social services
It's a very difficult situation for you, I'm so sorry for your loss 💐

I never judge people for not stepping up to elder care BTW (well maybe Thailand guy a bit on the time frame)

Again it's a thing I've learnt over time but very often there is a reason eg that sweet frail older person may have been an abuser, enabler, neglectful, alcoholic, abandoned their DC so if a relative says 'no I don't wish to be involved' I now just say 'that's fine. Thank you for your time.'
If they don't want to take any responsibility but they do want to interfere then that is more annoying but simply not wanting involvement is fine and it's best to just be clear at the outset so no time is wasted.

Thank you everyone for very helpful responses. I want mil to be comfortable and safe- imo she has limited capacity to make choices and definitely would not cope in anything other than full residential care..I understand that I cannot force her daughter to step up, I have had a very clear conversation with her, she is not at all pleased! I will not be waiting for her to take the initiative but will be contacting the LA today after speaking to Age UK. I'm not at all heartless, but I do not want this responsibility for someone who will not cooperate with anything. I feel so trapped! Thank you everyone.

I'm not at all heartless, I don't think that anybody in their right mind would think that you are.

You've been left in an extremely difficult situation and as a PP said, you need your own home back and the chance to grieve properly for your DW and make plans fir your future.

There's a website called Way Up for grieving partners which you may find helpful

You may find your opinion and that of social care do not coincide however. Thresholds are often higher than a lay person would realise. It's not just a matter of a preference for residential care (unless you are self funding) it has to be a necessity. Most people in care homes these days have dementia to be honest or severe physical disabilities as the ones who are just frail are supported at home.

If she doesn't have dementia or some other official diagnosis to point to a lack of decision making capacity it's likely she will be deemed to have it. It's a low bar.

It's actually quite hard to get someone assessed as needing residential care if they haven't tried a care package at home. Generally it would be things like needing care at night or unpredictability outside the hours of a care package eg with toileting or being unsafe alone outside care hours eg falling or wandering. Needing help washing, dressing and with meals and meds would usually be managed with a care package. Shopping and cleaning are very hard to get care for and aren't viewed as priority needs.

The LA has a duty to preserve public funds and the social worker has to justify their funding request to a panel.

This is why I suggest you major on the fact she will be homeless in x weeks and let them do their thing as to where they place her after that. If the timeline is short then she might get residential respite care at first.

Have spoken to a social worker, mil is being referred to the team who carry out assessments, and I should hear from them within 28 days to arrange face to face assessment. I have explained that I cannot continue to accommodate her and also that she has a history of mental.ill health so will not cope living independently. I will update this thread when there are developments and thank you. All so much for taking the time to respond and for your balanced considerations.

Well done for taking the first step.
When we are allowed to travel again, or if you can form a bubble, and you can afford it, go away for a few days. You need to be able to grieve your wife. Pay for a care company to come and do 24/7 overnight care. There are levels of just someone being in the house to full care, and if you can afford it the benefits to you will outweigh the the cost. It will also show everyone you are serious and you’ll have a record of what the care company had to do/deal with to get help sooner.

28 days?

The man who did the two week thing makes perfect sense now.

That sounds positive OP!
This rock and a hard place situation that you've been left in is counterproductive for everyone involved, it's generous of you to update and share your experiences so that others can learn about how best to deal with these situations.
As a society we have to find effective ways to look after older people they deserve to be treated with dignity care and respect, but we cannot expect family members to sacrifice their lives and their well-being in order for this to happen.
You should not allow yourself to be swept under the carpet, you have to speak out!
I have to say that the take home message seems to be never let an elderly family member move in with you ☹️

I think in many ways it's been easier having her live with us than being in the situation so many are in where they are constantly travelling back and forth to visit and support elderly parents with increasing support needs. But mil was much more mobile initially and could be left overnight, and of course there were two of us supporting each other and one of us could easily go away and leave the other in charge. Also, my DW had a close relationship with mil. The bond between mil and I is much more one born of necessity. Mil could often times be negative and unpleasant towards/about me. An additional factor is that we were a same sex couple, and mil would have much preferred a nice SIL to me! . It was becoming an increasingly tough burden taking care of mil though, and I think if my wife had lived we would at some point be faced with the place I've now arrived at.

I’m glad you have set things in motion. Hoping for a good outcome for you both

How would you feel about calling the SW back and just making sure that they understand that want her out by say 1st May and asking for the telephone number for the team that does the assessments?

I fear that by giving you 28 days for the next contact that without almost constant pushing from you, you may be ignored.

@BunnyRuddington
I will call them and chase after a fortnight, and will think about setting a definite deadline date if I need to to expedite things, thank you.

I think for mil's benefit and mine it will be good if things don't drag on too long.

@joystir59

I think in many ways it's been easier having her live with us than being in the situation so many are in where they are constantly travelling back and forth to visit and support elderly parents with increasing support needs. But mil was much more mobile initially and could be left overnight, and of course there were two of us supporting each other and one of us could easily go away and leave the other in charge. Also, my DW had a close relationship with mil. The bond between mil and I is much more one born of necessity. Mil could often times be negative and unpleasant towards/about me. An additional factor is that we were a same sex couple, and mil would have much preferred a nice SIL to me! . It was becoming an increasingly tough burden taking care of mil though, and I think if my wife had lived we would at some point be faced with the place I've now arrived at.

Obviously we don't know the circumstances of your wife's death, but I wonder what she would have hoped/her expectations would have been given that her mother is in ill health and so aged... I presume not to have thrown her into a care home ASAP? It's very sad re the other daughter. But equally sad that you don't feel that there's a middle ground, such as a care package of carers for her. It's not as though with the pandemic you'll presumably wish to be sleeping elsewhere every night?

For me this makes me feel so sad for her and your DW, who has in effect entrusted her mother to your keeping.

thrown her into a care home ASAP?
I think it's very cruel to attack the OP for not wanting to sacrifice her own wellbeing to care for this very difficult elderly woman who didnt ought to be her problem in the first place

BusyLizzie61 no, we don’t know the circumstances, and it is none of anyone else’s business but the OP’s.

The OP has already said that her mother in law has many needs, and that she is not likely to be accepting of support. She is not staying that she is going to abandon her.

Residential care is hardly “throwing someone in a home”, so unless you know the facts then please be kind.

@BusyLizzie61 I am currently helping to care for my own mum who has dementia. I love her to bits but it's joy-sapping and I hate almost everything about it. There is no way on earth I'd consider doing it for someone I don't love and I wouldn't give a toss if anyone thought to criticise me for that.

Busy it's very sad, and dare I say selfish to move in with your DD and her wife as you age and become frail, with no consideration given to the impact on their lives as your needs increase indefinitely.
Not what I would want for my DC in the prime of their lives.

Just for additional context my DW never asked me to continue to care for her Mum, and found it an increasingly difficult burden, and if she hadn't become ill and then lost her life to cancer we would have had to face mil's deteriorating mobility and capability at some point. I am 63. I intend to move forward with my life and other people can criticise me all they like but they haven't walked in my shoes and they don't know my mil.

it's very sad, and dare I say selfish to move in with your DD and her wife as you age and become frail, with no consideration given to the impact on their lives as your needs increase indefinitely.

Not what I would want for my DC in the prime of their lives.

And even more selfish to them refuse any kind of outside help.

If the mil isn't even given the opportunity to have a care package at home, we'll never know whether she'd refuse it when givne the stark choice of that or a home, will we....

For me, this is such a harsh and unfeeling move to go straight to home...

DMIL went straight into care without ever having a care package and was definitely not thrown anywhere. She was assessed properly, by professionals, and found a very suitable and caring care home.

The OP is asking for advice, please can you stop judging her and others now busy?

We are independently responsible for preparation for our own safety and well being in older years . That's what we 'scrimp and save' for all our lives isn't it? To buy in care as needed. It's one thing to accept a little family help now and then, to move in for indefinite 24/7 care is far more selfish.
Unfortunately too, it isn't MIl home, so she doesn't get to make the choice about care packages. If she's deemed to have capacity she can move back out and have one.