Advice please: Elderly mil cannot carry on living with me

[joystir59]

Sorry if this is a bit long:
My DW died in July. Her mum had been living with us for some years at this point. There is another daughter who is very hands off and lives approx 200 miles away
Mil is 87, poor sight, poor hearing, bad mobility, not able to manage her own affairs or communicate without extensive help, struggles to use the shower. I support her with shopping, laundry and overseeing things like GP reviews. She hasn't left the house for years. She is reclusive and uncooperative, will not grant her surviving daughter LPA, hasn't written a will, doesn't like anyone coming in to provide care or support e.g. if I want to go away. She is scared of being left alone at night and not able to leave the house unaided.
I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.
I understand she will need a Care Needs Assessment. Does anyone know if this can be done here where she now lives but then be used by the local authority in her daughter's area? Does anyone know how difficult it is to get an assessment that a residential home is needed?).
Any advice on any aspect of the process gratefully received.

I am 63. I intend to move forward with my life
so you should....the idea that we are expected to spend our golden years as slaves to elderly demented people just appalls me.
We all know what the likely trajectory is as we age, it's up to us to find suitable accommodation and make plans, it's not acceptable to just land on other people with no thought for their wellbeing or lives

@BusyLizzie61

If the mil isn't even given the opportunity to have a care package at home, we'll never know whether she'd refuse it when givne the stark choice of that or a home, will we....

For me, this is such a harsh and unfeeling move to go straight to home...

Oh come on.

It's hard enough when it's your own parent that you love. It's often enough to cause the carer to have a nervous breakdown.

I don't believe op should have to sacrifice her own life for her MIL. Direct your sadness at the MILs own daughter.

Oh what a horrible situation.
I'd just let the other daughter know and tell her you'll be giving SS her details.
Ask if she'd prefer her in a home near you or her ? If near her , tell her to start looking round.
Good luck 💐

@cptartapp

We are independently responsible for preparation for our own safety and well being in older years . That's what we 'scrimp and save' for all our lives isn't it? To buy in care as needed. It's one thing to accept a little family help now and then, to move in for indefinite 24/7 care is far more selfish. Unfortunately too, it isn't MIl home, so she doesn't get to make the choice about care packages. If she's deemed to have capacity she can move back out and have one.

It IS mil's home and has been since her daughter moved her in.

How unfeeling and bloody insulting to her.

@BusyLizzie61surely you can appreciate that this is not a fair or sustainable situation? The OP is doing absolutely nothing wrong in finding a better situation for her DW's mother. Why should she sacrifice her own life? As I said, I'm doing this for my own mum but I'd be damned if I'd do it for anybody else's mother, and I will never, ever let my own children look after my personal care. There is no dignity in that situation for the elderly person. I'd far rather be looked after by professionals. A home isn't cruel. It's the better option in many circumstances, including the OPs.

MIL will hasn't been cooperative in accepting carers coming in in the past, and hadn't been willing to pay for them as she doesn't think she needs them. This means I cannot go away as I know the truth is she is very scared to be left alone overnight and not able to get out of the house unaided if need be. This situation is not tenable.

She is completely dependent on one person for everything- me. Not tenable. She constantly says she feel.beholden to me and used to say the same thing to my DW when she was alive. Not healthy. Anyway, I'm grateful for the many informative thoughtful and understand posts, and am not defending myself any more to those who would judge.

@joystir59

MIL will hasn't been cooperative in accepting carers coming in in the past, and hadn't been willing to pay for them as she doesn't think she needs them. This means I cannot go away as I know the truth is she is very scared to be left alone overnight and not able to get out of the house unaided if need be. This situation is not tenable.

Why do you think then she'd be more accepting of a home? Surely you can see that morally, at least giving her the option to accept a home care package is the kinder, more humane and loving way forward?

Think OP has more than done her bit, in the midst of personal tragedy.

Did your MIL own her own house before she moved in with you and her daughter? What happened to the proceeds of the house? Is there a possibility that your MILs other daughter thinks financially you should help as you benefitted from her living with you?

Joy, what is her daughters position? Is she not willing to help you sort this out? It is wrong for her to expect this to be solely your problem. Do they have any sort of relationship now?

BusyLizzie61, Why don't you Offer your services to care for this elderly lady sounds like you really want to?

@BusyLizzie61

If the mil isn't even given the opportunity to have a care package at home, we'll never know whether she'd refuse it when givne the stark choice of that or a home, will we....

For me, this is such a harsh and unfeeling move to go straight to home...

MIL refuses to be alone in the house at night. So she has already gone beyond the stage where she could be supported by a care package in the domestic home. She needs professional residential care with night staff.

@BusyLizzie61 have you actually read a word OP has written?

BusyLizzie61

“ Why do you think then she'd be more accepting of a home? Surely you can see that morally, at least giving her the option to accept a home care package is the kinder, more humane and loving way forward?”

The mother in law won’t have a home to receive home care in. At her age, with the level of need that she has, it’s not really in her best interest to rehouse her. The kindest plan is for her to be transferred to a residential placement.

They aren’t really all bad you know.

I don’t really understand why you feel the OP should have to carry on with current situation. As she has said, the situation is untenable. With the best will in the world, it is incredibly hard work to provide round the clock care for a person, especially with no support.

Lizzie is busy sorting out her spare room so that she can be entrusted the elderly lady in question... for whose needs she will provide-because anything else would be harsh and unfeeling☝️🙂

Contact your local Carers’ Association for support and guidance.

Sorry for your loss 💐

I’m so sorry to hear of your circumstances... the loss of your wife must still feel very raw and with MIL and her own issues, I imagine you’ve not had time or space to truly grieve.

I have no advice to add to the excellent posts already offered but I would say that you should not wait for 28 days to hear back from SS. You need, as others have said, to be really firm, and I suggest a call next week where you specify a date from which point she will be homeless is the way to go.

As I said upthread, and other professionals contributing were quick to say too, we do not judge anyone's circumstances or decisions. We just implement the rules. I really don't think OP needs a guilt trip to add to her grief beyond what she will likely already get from MIL and SIL.

Expectations about elder care are very cultural and specific and what some would see as an obligation others would not expect at all.

I am tempted to wonder whether if OP was a man anyone at all would be suggesting he take on the care of his MIL? I really doubt it.

@Coffeeandcocopops

Did your MIL own her own house before she moved in with you and her daughter? What happened to the proceeds of the house? Is there a possibility that your MILs other daughter thinks financially you should help as you benefitted from her living with you?

OP, this is an important question and hopefully someone with more knowledge will come along.

But depending on when she moved in with you, there is a 7 year limit (I think) on either the deeds changing hands or maybe any profits being signed over.

I am hopeful someone knows what I am talking about, because I only glanced at the article

OP it is staggering how little people really know the true extent of what is going on in social care. I am going to be really blunt with you here for your own good as I think you have quite enough dealing with bereavement let alone caring for an uncooperative elderly woman who is not related to you and doesn’t really seem to approve or like you. Make no mistake, if you give social services an inch they will take a mile,. Forget about appealing to them about what is best for your mother-in-law or yourself, they do not give a shit about that. What they do want is to dodge the financial burden of taking your MIL into care and they will use every trick in the book to keep her in your house. They will guilt-trip you, cancel appointments, give you long deadlines and yarns about there being no room in local residential homes. Take absolutely no notice. Ring them up and say you have reconsidered and just cannot wait 28 days for your MIL to be assessed, let alone longer for her to be removed from your house. Tell them they have two weeks to find her emergency care somewhere and warn them that you are at the absolute end of your tether and cannot guarantee that you will not have a breakdown and harm her if she isn’t moved elsewhere very sharpish - and put all that into writing. Sounds awful? It is, but swallow the embarrassment and do it because, sadly, this is what people often have to do to make social services take responsibility for someone they don’t want to take responsibility for.

The stress of caring for someone unco-operative with dementia nearly killed me and that was without them living in my house. Don’t slide into this with someone you don’t love and aren’t related to or you will bitterly regret it.

PS ignore the sanctimonious fuckwits trying to guilt you into something they’d never do themselves.

warn them that you are at the absolute end of your tether and cannot guarantee that you will not have a breakdown and harm her if she isn’t moved elsewhere very sharpish

Don’t say you may harm her. That would be a threat.

@BunnyRuddington

My experience of adult SS is that they are very slow to respond. You'll need to be firm.

This is my experience too. I was friendly but phoned DMIL SS almost daily until she was in a suitable home.

100% this.

Having been through this at the end of last year, I can honestly say it was the worst time of my life.

You have to tell SS you will not care for her any longer and that she isn’t your mother. Tell them every single day.

You can make a referral to social services yourself or by your MIL GP.

I would stress the urgency of the situation, say you are at carer breaking point and you do not want your MIl living with you anymore. I am assuming your MIL has no legal rights to the property? No assets in the property? As they will also look into this if your MIL is adamant she wants to stay. Hopefully you can all work together to find a solution best for MIL.