The second new shiny 2019 thread ...

[MereDintofPandiculation]

... for anyone caring for elderly parents. Come and join us to ask for, or to give, sympathy, ask for advice, or have a good rant.

Dint I know that's why mum looks as she does. I'm just saying I find it depressing. That sounds mean doesn't it. Once again, it's like occupying quite a nice planet till I go round there...

mum also wants to sort the house so I don't have to. Anyway, if she really stops talking to me about it, I'll be pleased, though I'm not holding my breath!

Grace Sorry! No, you don't sound mean. Looking after an elderly person who is no longer "the person you knew", whatever form it may take, is depressing.

everything in her house is valuable

After a lifetime of car boot sales, antiques fairs, antiques auctions and charity shops, there's an incredible mish mash of stuff here.

She'll point to something and tell me "it might be valuable" and I genuinely haven't a clue. Trouble is she's rattling around in a big house (20 rooms or so, if you count the little ones) that's full of everything from antique taxidermy of now endangered species to a broken microwave stashed in case in comes in useful.

There's two reasons I dread her going; one because I'll miss her dreadfully but other because we'll have to clear the house. Cash in the Attic producers would have a field day.

Avocado you mean a lifetime of buying stuff from those places?

Just looked up mum's height and weight on a chart - not a chart for the elderly. She's 80 years old, she's about 10lb underweight.

that's not a weight that should have anyone suggesting protein shakes is it? Tbh I'm loath to suggest that anyway as she is prone to indigestion. She does mobility exercises daily and if she drops something on the floor, it's no bother at all to her to pick it up.

Yes, buying stuff from those places. Some of it is beautiful but there's some which is indisputable junk, a lot in the middle and there's just so, so much of it. First world problems, however!

I've no idea about the point at which protein shakes might be suggested, but with 20/20 hindsight I'm not sure if weight loss in the elderly is ever reversed, so I'd act early to keep as much weight on for as long as possible. The family geriatric is skin and bone with no appetite and no way of getting any of the weight back on. She was always a bit plump into her early 80s, so I wouldn't have predicted where we are now.

I think as they (one?) age, appetite loss is very common. I know with mum it was always advised she should eat little and often and whatever she wanted - cakes, cream, smoked salmon, whatever she could face. But her appetite declined so much, she was like a little bird at the end. And the feeding up with protein shakes etc only came when she was in hospital, by which point it was too late.

Ditto the 'stuff'! I have mostly cleared DM's house, but there's shedloads of her stuff in my house which I dont want or dont have room for or cant see the point of keeping... DB declined the stuff so I'm gradually taking it for valuation/sale (and keeping the money) or charity shopping it if the DDs dont want it.

DH and I are coming round to the conclusion that the bag for life may be best option, depending on what consultant says after MDT meeting tomorrow. Our first concern: get rid of the cancer; second: quality of life. We both agree that being doubly incontinent after 2 ops at the age of 56 does not = great quality of life. But I am being conscious of telling him that it is his body, not mine. (but if I was doubly incontinent I'd want to die).

On a related note, I recently found some spices which had suspiciously 70s looking packaging. I couldn't find a use by date on it, so I googled the name of the company. They went out of business in 1984 There has been a house move since then so they must have transported food that was already at least a decade old, and then sat on it for another 3 decades.

On account of the antique nature of the spices, they were returned to the kitchen cupboard so that in future we can marvel at just how old this stuff is.

MNHQ may need to add an emoji for banging your head against a brick wall.

with 20/20 hindsight I'm not sure if weight loss in the elderly is ever reversed My father dropped 2 stone towards the end of last year, but a month after moving into a nursing home had put on 12 kg and was almost back to his long-term weight.

In addition to breakfast, hot two course dinner, hot two-course tea, they also give a cup of tea and cake in the afternoon, and a supper of sandwiches and cake. He likes cake!

this may be a stupid question but what is the worry with weight loss in the elderly - is it general frailty? Mum has had so many issues with IBS over the years, I completely see why she'd rather eat to suit herself.

I do worry that she's more likely to break a bone in a fall, but having broken two bones myself, in 20s and 30s, I know it's just as much about the situation and the angle of the fall etc.

It's ironic because while I'm trying not to angst over things, her friends and the doctor are making a big deal of it. She isn't bothered either.

Dint I couldn't eat what they are serving your dad, glad he is enjoying it!

Avocado Oh dear, I feel for you. These are moments when I realise I'm whining about nothing!

@mere I wish my geriatric had that much of an appetite! It's like trying to feed a sparrow with anorexia. Portion sizes can literally be 20% of what I'm eating.

@grace I can laugh about the spices as I can throw them out later without needing to worry too much. The stuff that makes me worry is the stuff that might be a Ming vase or might be utter tat and no one has a clue how to differentiate

Re the weight loss, we're at the very very elderly end of things, but it's adding to general frailty (she really is just skin and bone now), it's probably putting extra pressure on her heart (as with anorexics who have heart attacks) and we worry more about pressure sores as there's just no padding any more.

Avocado do you mind if I ask the age of your mum?

I can't work out if I'm being a horribly irresponsible daughter by not being worried about my mum being 10lb underweight.

I see the strain on the heart argument - but she is 80? Is all this worry from the doctor geared up for the whole "we must keep people alive as long as possible" thing that seems to go on now?

My mother refused a pacemaker a couple of years ago and has a DNR. She would be horrified at the idea of living into her 90s. I tend to think the decent thing to do is let her get on with life as she wishes.

PS we had a neighbour who, at 92, was eating a bit of cake and a sandwich every day, that was about it.

she's in a home now but she's 95 and still going.....

She's not my DM, but she's at the north end of her 90s. She, too, has refused major treatment and we largely focus on quality of life and keeping her in her own home.

I try to let her get on with life as much as possible, but I don't want her death to be preceeded by pressure sores, being so weak she falls, and then ending up having an undignified painful death in hospital. Something will get her, but I'd sooner it was either something quick or peaceful (or both).

does "north end" mean "late 90s"?

I completely understand the wanting quality of life thing, I suppose I just feel we have no control over it.

Yes, not far off 100.

We've limited control, but do what we can. It's about managing the inevitable long term slow decline as best as we can.

nearly 100....

joking aside, I'm going to take a break from this thread as I think I'm worrying too much reading stuff on here. Take care all

oh god, the thought of having to deal with a squillion bits of my parent's crap when I have squillion bits of crap of my own 🤦‍♀️

Is anyone dealing with a main family carer who complains about all their responsibilities (to the point of upsetting DGeriatric) but refuses help from other family who are entirely capable because they desperately need to control everything?

Currently being driven around the bend by this. Main carer is desperately in need of a holiday but won't go and leave me or anyone else in charge. Structural building work needs doing but he's doing a DIY bodge job instead of getting builders in and moaning about having to do it himself (money isn't the issue). Got called out to an emergency with DGeriatric while in the middle of a household task; I continued it to help out and was midway through when he returned and told me to stop it immediately (it was the sort of task no one can screw up, so not about competence).

I've ended up scrubbing the carer's kitchen, partly because it's like an episode of How Clean Is Your House (genuinely vile, and he cooks me food there when I visit) and partly for my own sanity, but he's moaning about that too. I've been scrubbing for hours, gone through multiple bottles of cleaning fluid and I haven't even got inside the cupboards yet.

He's bad enough now while he's fit and well; I dread to think what he'll be like in 20 years when he's the geriatric. He doesn't want to do it all himself but he won't accept help of any substance

Scratch that, decided to create a second thread

How's everyone doing? hope the oldies are all behaving and life not too stressful. etc for you all.

Mum's buyers are renting the house until sale goes through! Which is brilliant, and they will be in on June 3rd (DH surgery June 4th god willing). Takes a load of weight off my mind, but a lot to do in the next fortnight.

DB and DN coming on Saturday to take stuff away, some stuff on ebay, skip coming, and need to book hospice shop to take away remaining furniture etc. Gardeners booked to de-weed drive and patio (had not noticed how terrible it looks) and cleaner to wash walls, hoover etc when everything has gone. Still seems a hell of a lot to organise, but getting there.

Colonoscopy on Thurs, then hopefully we will know what surgery is planned/what best options are. My stress levels are through the roof, surviving on red and fags. DH OK-ish but crotchety. DD1 home from uni but has to finish her dissertation by end of the month, and DD2 home just before DH surgery.

yolo that is a lot, especially with all the other stress.

I can imagine your stress levels are through the roof.

when I have a quiet period with olds, I sometimes think I should be "doing something" but then I think, ach well, life will throw enough at us anyway!

yolo good news re house and everything crossed for dh.
Please make sure you make some t8me for you- beach with ddog?
Calmish here.
cockroach all

Everything crossed here for yolo and DH, too.

Cockroach, one and all.

I have a question which might make more sense here because of the nature of the board

if you work for people as individuals, e.g. cleaner, gardener, what would be the norm in terms of getting references?

Mum's cleaner is going and she doesn't want to use an agency. I have no idea what I would be looking for from someone who has just been working privately. Does a "letter of recommendation" type thing still exist? If they supply a phone number or email for recommendation, I could just be ringing one of their mates so I don't know how much difference it makes in the end.

thanks.

Thus is frankly a very tricky one.

For example, I work for a large corporate, where we are not allowed to provide any reference other than a statement of the start date and end date of employment.

When I look for people to do work in our home, I never really expect references. In an ideal world, I would go with a personal recommendation from someone I trust.

That means I mostly just trust I suppose to. gut reaction, being clear what I expect and not being afraid to sag 'sorry, this isn't working for us'. I say that, but I have only ever had two cleaners, one lasted three weeks and the second, coming up for twenty years.

Good luck.