Need some help. Visiting my elderly father is excrutiating.

[needsomehelpwiththisone]

I've done a new account for this post but I've been here for a long time.

I am desperate for some advice about visiting my elderly father, because I feel like the world's biggest bitch and I don't know what to do.

Background: We have nothing in common. We did not get on well when I was growing up. I am an only child (relevant). My mother is dead (also relevant).

A few years ago, dad, by then in his mid 80s (now late 80s) moved into sheltered accommodation about a half hour drive from me having previously lived seven hours away at the other end of the country. There was really no other option as due to my own poor health I could not make the visit to see him any more and he was all alone and beginnig to struggle on his own. Until the point where he moved, we saw each other once a year, perhaps twice at the very most - I would go "home" to visit for a couple of days at a time and we'd both be climbing the walls after a day. Visits were only ever two days at the most. My father is very insular. Conversations consisted of "Do you watch this television programme?" and nothing more. He was never interested in anything I had to say, so I didn't bother to tell him what was going on in my life. It was painful.

Now he lives near me and is older and still on his own, I am expected to visit once a week. In principle I agree with this, he's on his own after all and I'm his only living relative. But I find the visits absolutely excrutiating and I'm beginning to put off going. We are not close, and we have nothing to talk about. He doesn't listen to anything I have to say, so there's no point telling him anything. I arrive, I take him to the shop, but this only takes half an hour at the most, and then I don't know what to do. We sit there in silence. He doesn't do anything except watch television, so I can't ask him about his day. He's also very deaf, so conversation is almost impossible, even if he was interested in anything I had to say.

He also insists on phoning me twice a day just to "hear my voice" (he can make out my voice on the phone, apparently, but nobody else's). I understand why, he's very lonely, but I don't know what to say to him then either and vice versa. I have no clue how to relate to him at all and never have done. Our relationship growing up was fractious and argumentative and unpleasant - he's mellowed with age - but there are no nice memories to sit and talk about. I sometimes take him out for lunch, but again, conversation is so difficult that we sit and eat lunch in the pub in silence and then I take him home again.

Please, what can I do to make these visits more bearable for both of us? Not going is not an option, since he will call me and beg me to go if I don't. I dread going. I put it off for as long as humanly possible. And I feel terrible.

Or rather you’ve got a thread full of people at your back except for one 🙄

If I pull him up on it, he will say "Yes, I know, I know, but I can't not speak to you, I can't help it, I get so anxious if I can't immedaitely get hold of you". He knows he is repeatedly phoning. This is not a memory issue. It's a control issue, he's doing it to alleviate his anxiety about not speaking to me whenever he demands to bloody well be able to do it.

In the pub - games like dominoes or card games like patience? Things you can do alone to pass the time & he can watch, or join in, even if you don’t talk.
Don’t feel guilt about finding this difficult. Not everyone gets on with their parents - my FIL was a difficult character & as bad as it sounds there was a definite tinge of relief as well as sadness when he died, and he wasn’t even old.

I should love them and want to do this stuff, and I just don't, I don't feel like that

No, I know what you mean. I don't have that sort of attachment to my parents either and never have. This is why I recommend looking at it like it was a job or as if he were someone you'd been assigned to befriend by a charity. I thought someone might say that sounded cold, but they haven't. (The difference is though that I think I've had more distance from my parents over the years and been able to get rid of some of my baggage as a result.) If it's this bad, the idea of talking to a random old man who was passing by in the street may be more appealing than dealing with your dad. So if you can muster the same sort of detachment with your dad which you might talk to a random old man you were helping out...

OP - I'm so sorry. Reading the thread is like looking into the future for us. We also have a demanding parent (widowed, only one child), who phones a lot despite having nothing to say. Will visit (but this is getting too much so it will soon be us visiting only) but won't join in with us in anything we try to do.

I keep saying how I feel bad because one day they'll be gone and I'll regret being so resentful, but I really am. I know they're lonely, but will do nothing to help themselves. It feels intrusive and not really caring about anyone but themselves.

I don't know what you can do apart from say you can't take calls in the morning and block him each morning (at least). I'm afraid I've put our parent number onto "do not disturb" so that I can see/respond in my own time.

Other than that, would it help to form your own routine, meaning that you'll only speak to him when it fits in? I'm thinking something like going swimming in the morning (if your disability allows) where you definitely can't answer the phone. Or make sure that when you get home from work you put some music on while you make food - ignoring all calls - to give yourself space to unwind. Then (if you want to) give him a call when you're available, ignore the missed calls. That's the only way I can think that I would be able to cope.

How about a separate phone/sim just for him and you decide when you call? Eg "dad, I will call you every evening after I've had my dinner" or "every other morning" and keep that phone switched off in between?

Would popping on twice a week, but only for half an hour, be more bearable? So one shopping trip, one evening go round and watch a TV programme together. Could you just insist on putting the TV on?

Haven't RTFT so apologies if already suggested, but how about getting yourself a mobile internet dongle to use with a laptop and start doing some genealogy on visits to him? Sign up to genesreunited or ancestry UK to put a family tree together. Might prompt some reminiscences and give you something to talk about?

My dad became ill when I was younger and my mum and I had to care for him. I did have some good memories and experiences with my dad but some utterly awful ones too, he was an alcoholic and could be abusive. It was pitiful and very sad to see him in his illness, he really suffered and my heart broke for him a bit. But I also hated him for the crap he’d put us through before becoming ill, and for being such a bloody awful patient and so fucking ungrateful afterwards. He too would refuse practically anything that would improve his situation or make life any easier for my mum, and would also turn on the helpless ‘but I can’t help it’ when called on this - which no doubt was true but it was just an awful situation all round. I used to pray he’d ‘go’ before my mum because I was seriously terrified of the alternative. (He did, when I was 21)

Even later when I cared for my mum before she died, which I did want to do because we had a wonderful relationship and she was a wonderful mum and she tried so hard to be positive and protect me even as she needed my help, I still had days of sitting in the car unable to face going in the house, still wanted to run away and pretend it wasn’t happening and still got frustrated and angry more often than I’d like to admit.

All that to say I really empathise but please do not feel guilty for not suddenly having a rush of daughterly love and an overwhelming desire to look after your dad - even when the love and bond has been there all along this stuff is incredibly difficult, and so much more so when the preceding relationship was fraught.

I think if it were me I would:

• Answer the 2 daily calls with a ‘Hi dad was there something you needed or is this your usual check in? Check in? Ok well I’m fine but I’m hanging up now because I’m busy I will see you X day’

• 1 longer visit per week to take him shopping or to appointment or whatever. Back to his room, cup of tea then leave. Then make any other visits, if you feel you have to go, 30-40 minutes max.

• You say you ‘cant’ stop the visits or leave him to it, I’m with you I wouldn’t be able to either, so I’d make peace with myself that these are my duty visits I’m doing to allow me to sleep at night and give me some semblance of peace of mind. Accept that it’s going to be a fact of your life for an indeterminate period of time, but not forever. Accept that it’s shitty and painful and somewhat out of your control but also ringfence it as much as possible, so you know you are giving him eg 90 seconds twice a day for phone calls and 90 minutes every Xday for visit, but you won’t allow it to spill over any further. Recognise that it’s not because you’re a bad or unnatural daughter but because you are dealing with a really difficult person with whom there was not much of a preexisting relationship and you are protecting yourself and your own health. So you will do this ‘job’ for those set hours and that it is the best you can do and more than many would attempt in the circumstances

• As a pp said treat it like a job. Bright cheery voice talking about inane shit. Don’t try to relate as his daughter, it hasn’t really worked before in your lifetime it’s not going to start now. Put on your ‘visiting dad’ persona before you go. This persona is cheerful and unphased and she is in charge of how the visit goes, so if you’re not out shopping you can be like ‘right let’s get the telly on, no good sitting in silence is there? What do you usually watch at this time?’ If he moans you can’t have tv on as you’re a guest just gently but firmly override him ‘well that would be fine if we were doing something else dad but you don’t want to so telly it is’.

‘I’ve brought the paper dad, I’ll get the magnifier out and you can read it whilst I listen to the radio (which you’ve also brought with you because YOU want to listen)’

If he asks did you see X program ‘is that the one with the baking/talking monkey/terrorist plot/ whatever?’ Or ‘no what was it like?’ Or ‘Bob at work went on about that, did you like it?’

If he complains his life has got small ‘I know dad, it’s hard for you, I’ll put the kettle on then shall I? We’ll have this cup of tea then I best be off, what are you going to watch this afternoon?’ - ie don’t engage or try to offer solutions as it’s clear he doesn’t want that, just acknowledge it’s hard/sad for him and then change the subject. If he repeats it you could try ‘well what WOULD you like to do’ which would be met with ‘I don’t know/ I can’t change/ it’s all too hard’ type things in which case don’t show frustration and don’t get sucked in just a neutral ‘well you let me know if you think of anything eh?’ and back to whatever you were previously doing.

If his bedding is dirty well then it’s dirty. Grim and upsetting maybe but there’s nothing you can actually do and, as you’re being as impartial as possible then you’ll have to think like the paid carers - they can’t force him to do anything against his will and nor can you. So don’t engage. If he brings it up ‘well you know the answer dad - you need to let the carers do their job’

Meanwhile continue with the appointments and it sounds like things may be about to change in terms of his level of need being assessed differently? I’d be speaking to your own GP about what support you may be able to access for yourself, but also are there any charities or groups that might have resources you can access or point you in the right direction either for more support for him, or for you - Age UK maybe?

Absolutely feel your pain I had same with my died now dead and I do feel incredible guilt. One thing I did after he died was ancestory online as he had mentioned it a lot. I found it really interesting and wished I had done it with him as he wd have enjoyed and he could answe the questions . Maybe something you could do ? He sounds very like my dad ....

I also meant to say the fact they will not help themselves is probably the most frustrating part. If my dad had helped even a little his health etc would all have been better but he did nothing it was like he didn’t care the impact he was having. It is hard to step back as it is relentless . In the end I forced my dad to meet with a befriended and unbelievably they found a match I personally couldn’t stand the guy but they got on like a house on fire perhaps there is something to look into anyway. :-(

OP, I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. To me, his behaviour sounds deeply manipulative bordering on the abusive. Just because someone is old & infirm doesn’t mean they can’t behave in a way that causes real harm to the people around them. Also just because a parent is elderly that doesn’t wave a magic wand and transform a pretty shit relationship into a rosy one.

I completely hear what you’re saying about not being able to live with yourself if you don’t pick up the phone/visit him, but I honestly don’t know how much longer you can carry on like this before having a breakdown. The whole thing sounds controlling and horrendously claustrophobic.

I would really recommend you get some therapeutic support in place for you. What do your RL friends say about it? Are they supporting you?

Brilliant advice AliasGrape

OP I really feel for you, what a tough situation. Sorry I can't offer any advice but I think Alias above has hit the nail on the head. Hang in there.

Suggestion, if you have BT you can access wi fi hotspots, so that you can use your laptop top when you travel around. Also if you have a mobile phone with internet, you can use this as a wi Fi hotspot and link to it to use your lap top. What about a pet fish ? How about taking him something to eat with his cup of tea, cake, biscuit. What about a plant that flowers like an amaryllis that goes from a bulb to a flower. I would stick with trips to the pub, because you are giving him a change of scenery and why not try Jenga. You have my sympathy. In his 80s he is not going to change, so you just need to keep calm and carry on.

My other suggestion is to turn some things into a positive. He moved closer, which means that you don't have any guilt about not visiting or him living 100s of miles away. If you have offered him opportunities and suggestions and he has refused, that is his decision, take comfort that you have made the offer. There was a case where someone phoned the speaking clock just to hear a voice, so perhaps this will put the phone calls into perspective. You are welcome to share your frustrations here, I've been in some similar situations

I've read the whole thread. You sound completely worn down and stuck in a rut. The best advice is from AliasGrape because it gives you back control in a situation where you feel you have none. But it requires a willingness from you to change your mindset and attitude. It really could work but you have to make it work.

When he calls you and you answer and say hello, how does that conversation go, who leads it?

I would say your not visiting any more until his bed is changed buy the carers and when he calls ask if the bed is done yet.
He seems like a bully and lazy, he has every opportunity not to be lonely but chooses too, that isn't your problem or guilt.
Your his child and he should want your life to be happy, he shouldn't make your life so difficult.

Thank you everyone. Just being able to talk about it without feeling like a monster is a relief.

AliasGrape that's great advice, thank you so much.

Yes, I'm very worn down but it's all emotional, not physical, since I'm not doing the caring. I'm dealing with my own health condition and I just don't have the headspace to deal with his anxiety too.

I think one of the hardest things is that even things that "should be nice" always have a tinge of "but it's always about him" about it. For example, if he phones me in the morning and asks how I am and I'm honest and tell him I'm feeling awful today and I'm going back to sleep - does he leave me alone to sleep? No - he gives it a while then phones continually because "I was worried about you because you said you weren't feeling well, so I needed to make sure you were OK, and I couldn't get through ("couldn't get through" meaning "I wasn't answering the phone"), so I had to keep ringing back" and then of course the phone wakes me up. He can't see it. In his head he's doing a nice thing. In mine, he's trying to control what I do even down to when I'm allowed to sleep because he's anxious about not hearing from me. That's a large part of why my phone is set to silent for him.

It's things like this that make me not want to go and see him in the first place. The more he does it, the more I back away, and the more he calls me begging me to go and see him. It's a complete vicious circle.

His anxiety is the worst part of it. I'm sure it's got worse as he's got older but to be honest he's always been anxious and controlling; this is reminding me of when I was younger and when I was out, perfectly normally, they used to phone round all my friends trying to find out where I was. The assuming all the time that because they haven't heard from me I must be "dead in a ditch". It's awful. Of course then there was nothing to be done about it, but now with mobiles his reaction to his anxious thoughts is "phone her constantly to check".

Oh - and he says the reason he's anxious is because his blood pressure medication lists anxiety as a side effect. But he refuses to go to the doctor about changing it for another one because "that won't help".

I would talk about what you want to talk about and do what you want to do when you're with him/on the phone to him

There really is no point asking him what he wants to do , as he doesn't want to do anything

So .....see him once a week. Take a newspaper and read to him. Chatter about the subjects which interest you and about your life, friends, food, work

Turn on the radio and listen to a play you like or an article which interests you. Tell him about why. Why for you.

Don't have an expectation that he'll be interested

Simply do what's easy for you to help you pass the time

It doesn't matter that he's not interested

He wants your company and the comfort of knowing someone is there

The content of the 'being there' is irrelevant to him -- so make it easy for you

Btw I am wondering if he goes to church, or could be got to church? The ones near me (esp the Anglican and Methodist ones) have ladies who visit congregation members who are housebound or sick. I'm sure he would resist, but it might be worth a try.

@AliasGrape has the best advice and if you can adopt her breezy approach you will hopefully find his negativity affects you less.

I would stop telling him how you are. When he asks, just breezily move on with a ‘oh I’m fine thanks Dad, how are you?’ This will shift the conversation back to him (which he’ll like) and avoid giving him any info to ramp up the calls. It will also avoid you feeling so hurt that he hasn’t acknowledged your problems.

Yeah, I don't tell him anything any more. I can't, or he'll use it as the metaphorical stick to beat me with. I always say I'm OK then move on, because I know if I don't that will result in a barrage of calls later to "see how you are, I was worried because you said you weren't feeling well".

No, he doesn't go to church and is very anti, actually. I've tried to organise befrienders for him in the past so he's got someone coming in to visit him. He's not interested and actually made me call and cancel it after I'd set it all up. He doesn't socialise in the sheltered accommodation, for their coffee afternoons and the like, beacuse he says "eh, it's all women who go to these things". Then when I challenge him on the calls, etc, he says "But you must undertstand, all l've got to do all day is sit on my bed and worry about you".

It's not unreasonable or uncaring to feel like you do OP and just like your Dad you have the choice to change it or leave it as it is. Sometimes just talking about it to others and realising we are not alone is enough help without changing a thing.

So first of all you don't need to change anything unless you want to. It certainly sounds like you've tried lots of different things and yet are still ending up with the same outcome. This would make anyone feel trapped and powerless.

It sounds like there are many things he is doing now that push you back into the place you were forced into as a child. 90% of negative feelings usually generate from our childhood and this can complicate our thought processes.

I wondered too if you (or he) felt that it might have been a mistake to move him closer? It's important to know though that you made the best decision at the time and you are being the best daughter that you can to a father who has always been difficult. His controlling of you is something he has done for years and perhaps this is more the issue rather than him being obstructive. Please keep posting if you find it helps because you don't deserve to be controlled in this way.

OP you need to look after your own health. He isn't going to change and you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

I would just stop talking about the bedding completely, I've known plenty of students who rarely changed bedding, grim but not the end of the world.

I also agree with taking some control over the phone calls and ignoring the emotional blackmail. As for visits I'd consider just leaving when you get stuck in a silence.

I wondered too if you (or he) felt that it might have been a mistake to move him closer?

I regret it every single day. I thought it would make things easier - I had no idea it would lead to this level of "houding". But of course I can't voice this, because that makes me an awful person.