Need some help. Visiting my elderly father is excrutiating.

[needsomehelpwiththisone]

I've done a new account for this post but I've been here for a long time.

I am desperate for some advice about visiting my elderly father, because I feel like the world's biggest bitch and I don't know what to do.

Background: We have nothing in common. We did not get on well when I was growing up. I am an only child (relevant). My mother is dead (also relevant).

A few years ago, dad, by then in his mid 80s (now late 80s) moved into sheltered accommodation about a half hour drive from me having previously lived seven hours away at the other end of the country. There was really no other option as due to my own poor health I could not make the visit to see him any more and he was all alone and beginnig to struggle on his own. Until the point where he moved, we saw each other once a year, perhaps twice at the very most - I would go "home" to visit for a couple of days at a time and we'd both be climbing the walls after a day. Visits were only ever two days at the most. My father is very insular. Conversations consisted of "Do you watch this television programme?" and nothing more. He was never interested in anything I had to say, so I didn't bother to tell him what was going on in my life. It was painful.

Now he lives near me and is older and still on his own, I am expected to visit once a week. In principle I agree with this, he's on his own after all and I'm his only living relative. But I find the visits absolutely excrutiating and I'm beginning to put off going. We are not close, and we have nothing to talk about. He doesn't listen to anything I have to say, so there's no point telling him anything. I arrive, I take him to the shop, but this only takes half an hour at the most, and then I don't know what to do. We sit there in silence. He doesn't do anything except watch television, so I can't ask him about his day. He's also very deaf, so conversation is almost impossible, even if he was interested in anything I had to say.

He also insists on phoning me twice a day just to "hear my voice" (he can make out my voice on the phone, apparently, but nobody else's). I understand why, he's very lonely, but I don't know what to say to him then either and vice versa. I have no clue how to relate to him at all and never have done. Our relationship growing up was fractious and argumentative and unpleasant - he's mellowed with age - but there are no nice memories to sit and talk about. I sometimes take him out for lunch, but again, conversation is so difficult that we sit and eat lunch in the pub in silence and then I take him home again.

Please, what can I do to make these visits more bearable for both of us? Not going is not an option, since he will call me and beg me to go if I don't. I dread going. I put it off for as long as humanly possible. And I feel terrible.

That's so hard. Do your DC play a sport? Taking him along to their matches is a great way to pass the time. Bring a foldable chair and let him sit and watch.

He seems pretty good at manipulative behaviour....

I agree about the boundaries, what would be reasonable for you in terms of phone calls? Can you tell him you're going to do that, you call him, and get another phone for work.

When he says his life is small, turn it back on him and ask him what he can do about it. If he says nothing, then emphasise to him (gently) that his life will remain small.

Have you discussed with his carers? They must be used to this.

Also I heard on a Podcast about taking an "obligation vacation" sometimes and giving yourself a break.

Also you could choose to go every other weekend.

You can be sympathetic to him at the same time but it's about your happiness too.

I would take charge a bit more and put the TV on and say I think it would be nice to watch it together. And then you can both talk about the programme if he doesn't mind talking with the TV on.

I do have the benefit of more time apart from difficult parents but I would perhaps talk about things like: TV programmes he used to watch back when you also watched TV, books he liked (if he used to read much), other people in the family or old friends of his, places you went to with him in the past - focusing on the place and the weather and activities rather than any disagreements or discomfort whilst you were there. What about the sheltered housing place? He must have some opinions about that and small dramas that can be asked about to take up the time. If he has stuff he wants to talk about I would just listen and be responsive to that (unless it is highly offensive).

Small talk is definitely a skill. I used to hate it when I was younger and not even understand what it was, but these days I'm amazed how much time I can use up just talking about the weather or the state of public transport or uncontroversial things from the news, or hearing what people had to eat when they often have the same thing. It is very useful if you don't want to go into much detail about your own life with all and sundry.

Is it possible to see it in a more detached way, as if you were a befriending service and he was someone you'd been allocated? I find that relatives as they get older are quite different from who they were in their 50s or whatever and so can easily imagine this.

Can you have a word with the carer and explain that actually you do need her to wash the bedding?

I don't have any children. There's nothing to take him along to in that regard - it's just me and him. I sometimes take him along to concerts I play in but he complains that he can't hear what the people are saying in between the music, and never has anything good to say about the concerts, even though he keeps asking to be taken to them, so I just don't want to take him any more because it's so unpleasant to do so.

I try to set boundaries but he insists on phoning me first thing in the morning and at teatime. He says he just wants to hear my voice. I find this creepy and intrusive and I dread it. My dread of his phone calls started when my mother was ill with dementia and in a care home, and he used to phone me every single day specifically to tell me how awful she'd been that day and that she'd been violent and to tell me how distressing it was for him. In essence he phoned me to unload every single day without giving any thought to what he was doing and I began to dread those phone calls to the extent that I stopped going to see my mother when she was ill.

I'd be happy to speak to him a couple of times a week, but then I'm the person who's leaving a 90 year old with no company and not even a phone call every day and I can't be that person. Plus, if I don't answer the phone, he just keeps calling and calling and calling until I do (every minute, the phone goes off). If I ignore it, he gets the people in the office of the care home to phone me, so that I see their number and then I can't ignore the phone, because what if it's an emergency?

I've discussed it over and over with the carers. They can't force him to do anything. He still has capacity. They don't insist on, for example, changing his bedding, they just don't do it if he refuses. His blanket hasn't been changed for months. I refuse to set the precedent of doing it myself, because if I do it'll never stop.

I don't know why I'm posting this really - I just want a way of making the visits tolerable and bearable and I guess to know whether it's normal to have no feelings for a close relative in a situation like this. I don't know :(

I sympathise as I'm in a very similar situation, although he's ill enough to be in a care home so there's clearer responsibilities for his carers. It sounds like you've tried pretty much everything people can suggest, so it's time to either accept it as it is or make it acceptable as you can for you. I now keep my visits very brief, so I don't resent them so much but as I go once or occasionally twice a week he gets regular contact. Those phone calls sound dreadful, I would explain to him one more time then get a new phone just for him to call so you can put in in another room and regain control (don't tell him you still have the old one). As for the rest of the stuff, if he won't listen and doesn't want to help himself you have done all you can. As frustrating as it is draw a line under it, listen to his complaining when you're there, keep your visits brief and leave it behind when you go. You have a clear conscience.

At the risk of being totally insensitive, he's in his late 80s so this isn't going to gone for ever. How do you think you'll feel when he's gone? What might you wish you'd asked him?

Would he watch a film on DVD with you? You could ask him if he has any ideas or just take along some that you think you'd both enjoy.

Does he watch TV when you are there or does he think he must switch it off to be polite when he has visitors? A film might be more acceptable to him if so.

Do you do any crafts - something like knitting might at least help you to feel like you've achieved something while you're there.

Would a couple of short visits be easier than one long one? Take him to the shop, have a cup of tea then go before you start to feel too trapped.

it sounds very difficult

We find reminiscing with my elderly parents the best thing to do , last week I got the laptop out and googled pictures of all the dancehalls that they used to go to , then we you tubed all the big band music that they danced to . My dear old dad got a bit teary .

I think it's normal to feel like this about someone you had a bad relationship with. I think you're being hard on yourself, and it might be worth reflecting on whether this is replicating old family dynamics.

He has largely made the choices that leave him alone, you are not responsible for them. He could choose to be involved with people where he lives or in other community organisations but he doesn't want to. You would not be leaving him completely alone if you went less often and sorted out the phone situation, you would be doing something that also works for you, relationships have to go both ways.

I'm guessing he might refuse it but do you think he needs some mental health support?

He sounds very much like my father in lots of ways.

Yes, Dad's not in a "care home" as such - I used that as shorthand more than anything. It's sheltered accomodation where they all have their own bedsitting rooms and a toilet/sink room (a bit like a big travelodge room) and communal dining.

The phone calls are short, literally just checking in, but I find it so intrusive. It's like having to check in with my parents when I was 15. It's like being on a lead and I can't bear it. I've told him time and time again that it can't continue, I've tried calmly, I've shouted, I've cried, but he only thinks of himself and what alleviates his own anxiety. He's so self-absorbed it beggars belief.

I don't know how much of it is manipulation and how much of it is dementia. I can't assume it's manipulation when it might be that he can't help it.

He doesn't have the internet, so I can't take the laptop, and he wouldn't be able to hear it anyway because the volume is quiet. He can't see the screen on a phone.

He doesn't have a DVD player, just a TV.

Yes, he thinks the TV should go off when you have visitors. It's awful sitting there in silence.

Is he on any antidepressants? My grandmother was a bit like this, medication didn't completely fix things but did help - depression is hugely common among the elderly.

EverardDibgy yes, he's very anxious and I think that's the root of a lot of his behaviour. He would definitely refuse mental health support though.

I think he might have dementia. He's being tested by the memory clinic at the moment.

That's why I can't just set those boundaries, because what if he can't help it.

Sorry for the multiple posts, every time i hit post there's something new to reply to.

I don't think he'd take antidepressants. He doesn't see anything wrong with any of his behaviour. He just says "That's the way I am, I can't help it".

I would imagine he has early dementia or at the very least mild cognitive impairment.

Being unable to initiate activities or make decisions is a big red flag for it. 'What do you want to do?' 'I don't know?' but at the same time he is bored.

Equally not letting the carers wash his bedding and saying you will do it. His ability to weigh things up is going - His choices are 1) carers wash bedding or 2) live in filth. My daughter will do it, isn't a choice.

I think his cognition is going and a more complex memory test such as a MOCA would probably show issues.

He's having the memory tests and he's just had the brain scan and the ECG they asked for. We're waiting for the follow up appointment with the memory clinic. He has very little short term memory, but his reasoning etc was still good on the tests.

This is the problem. How can I make this tolerable when he has no concept of what he's doing? Like the thing with the phone calls. He doesnt' see anything wrong with it, so he just.won't.stop.

OP, I don’t think there is much you can do about him, and it is having an impact on your own emotional wellbeing. Even if he “can’t help it” you still are, in fact, entitled to some boundaries.

Can you try to take control of the situation in ways that will make it more bearable? What about:

• Stop answering his daily check-in calls
• Tell the carers (/whoever he gets to ring you on his behalf so you’ll answer) that you don’t want to be contacted unless it is a genuine emergency
• Call him to check in on him as and when you feel up to it

I don’t know what you should do about the bedding thing, obviously that’s grim.

I appreciate that screening his calls might sound harsh or impossible, but from outside the situation as you have described it, I think it’s reasonable. At the moment everything’s on his terms and as well as being unbearable for you, it isn’t even really doing him any good.

I do try to screen the calls. I've set it to silent for his number so at least I don't hear it ringing time and time again, but if I don't answer he will literally repeatedly call me every two minutes until I pick the phone up - I'm not exaggerating about that. One day I had a lie in, and woke up to 37 missed calls. Screening doesn't work because he repeatedly phones and phones and phones, and when I call him on it he says he can't change who he is, or agrees to knock it off and then goes back to his old behaviour the next day. Short of blocking his number altogether there's nothing I can do about this, and I can't do that because it might be a genuine emergency.

Could you bring a book to read or knitting or leave a 1000 piece jigsaw there and do a bit every week? I would look up the programmes before l went and say Dad l have to see this programme. Lets leave it on for a bit. I found with my mum it was like l was the parent and she was the child so l laid down the law. Could ye go for a drive, put on the car radio,and just drive around chit chatting about the streets.
You play music..could you practice there if that is possible.
Its not easy but could you totally accept sitting in silence like a kind of meditation..zone out and just rest your body.
Is there a treat you can have on the way home everytime eg favourite coffee shop so have something to look forward to.
Stop trying as you are only wrecking your head.

And it also doesn't really change the fact that if I don't go to see him once a week he calls me and begs me to go and see him, and I find going over there absolutely unbearable and the more i put it off the more he asks me to go. I don't know what to do. I can't just not go, because how can I leave a 90 year old on his own for two weeks at a time with no company when it was me who moved him up here in the first place.

There isn't really room for jigsaws in his room unfortunately, there's a bed and a chair and a TV, and no furniture to put one on.

Could you read out the crossword clues to him? My grandad used to love that when his AMD got too bad to do the Farmers Crossword every week. Quizzes were good too - you could get one of those pub quiz aps and compete as a team.

Or just watch the Antiques Roadshow, or the Two Ronnies, or Tony Hancock, Tommy Cooper etc. Or, as people have said, you could ask him about the past - I wish I'd asked my grandfathers what their school was like, what Christmasses were like, what the war was like, etc.

As far as him calling, would he accept once a day (morning or evening) if you explain you will not answer at other times? To be brutal, if it's a real emergency, it won't be him calling.

I’m not sure what you expect people to suggest that you haven’t already ruled out.

You’ve every right to find this unbearable and to stop participating in it. You can block his number. Personally if it’s as bad as that - 37 missed calls in a single morning - I think you should. If it’s a genuine emergency, he can call the emergency services.

How can I block his number and refuse to speak to a 90 year old when I'm his only living relative? That's so cruel, I couldn't live with it.