Caring for elderly parents? Drop in for support, hand holding and whatever you need

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It doesn't matter whether you are a hands on carer, care from a distance, or are just contemplating the future. Join us for support from people who know the struggles of becoming your parents carer - we rant, cry, and pick each other up.

Accidents / falls increasing and I am visiting more now.

Is it normal to grieve a lot before a death? My Mum seems to be disappearing.

Cave, that does sound like fraud.

It sounds like my mother five years ago, at a point when the dementia was just starting to kick in. I knew about it because I had started managing a property for my dad, so knew there were problems with admin, contract signing, payments, tax returns etc, but my brother did not see it. In retrospect there were also problems with maintaining her home, hoarding - she would buy the same things on each supermarket trip, forgetting she had cupboards full at home, and keeping the house clean, plus the start of repetition in her conversation, and a diminishing interest in others. As well as a ferocious reaction if you ever pulled her up on anything - it was always someone else's fault. (Usually mine, at least when she was speaking to my brother - he obviously believed her rather than me!)

The people who sold my mum TV and Sky box protection were clever and kept within the law. It was protection, not insurance, so not regulated, and there was a cooling off period. However it was three year contracts and regular payments, and half way through the first three years they would confirm a renewal for an extended three years at a far higher price, again with the statutory minimum cooling off period. It was clear that my mum's phone number and address had been sold on many times. Its a pity you did not get a new phone number with the new address.

Luckily my mum does not remember her new address so even if she has a SPAM phone call she can't tell them where she lives, and I am careful that she only has a savings account with a debit card, which does not allow standing orders or overdrafts, and which does not have a cheque book, so her spending is limited to what is in the account. (Which I control and which is set to an amount she could afford to lose, but which I can top up should the carer need to buy something.)

Having to take over against someone's wishes, in their own best interest is awful. My mum screamed at me for about four months about stealing her cheque book from her. Financial independence, and a fear of losing her money and being destitute in her old age, were very deep rooted. Eventually she forgot, but it was difficult. I had to be careful that she always had money in her pocket, otherwise she would complain to my brother, who was not on the same page as far as her disability was concerned. And if she had money in her pocket she hid it, could not find it, and then thought it had been stolen.

NMS, that sounds almost exactly like the pattern of deterioration that my DM has followed. Except that I don't think she got sold anything much she didn't need/want - she was very good at being rude to cold-callers However, she did seem to get every brochure going and then hoarded them!
She still worries about her money and where it is, no matter how often we reassure her that it's in the safe in her home.

LittleHo, I think it is very normal. Especially if it is a big change and you were close to the person before

Exactly the same here re the money- when I had a rummage through cupboards and drawers last summer I found hundreds of pounds lying around, because of course she no longer remembered the safe code. We removed her credit card not because she would go wild with it, but again, she kept forgetting the pin.

All moot points now, as she is staying in the home. Am torn between being sad that this is very much The Next Stage and happy because she is where she needs to be. Now we have the fun of the paperwork. My cousin is asking what I want to do with the house- do we rent it out, or do we sell it straight off. His older daughter would be interested in buying. Having ascertained she probably has enough in savings/investments to keep her in the home for 10 yrs without needing to touch any monies coming from the house I think I will opt for the selling to my cousin's daughter. Two reasons really- I don't think I want to think of tenants in there, and I know if I didn't take on the house (which, living in another country, isn't going to happen) then my Mum would want someone in the family to have it.

am very glad am not there. Bright side is that she is settling in. My cuz has been advised not to go and see her just yet so she isn't confused and thinks she is going home because she seems to have accepted quite happily she isn't. So, I haven't spoken to her or anything either.

Thank you bigTilly. I'm not sure if I should move over to the bereavement posts for my Mum or stay here as my Dad will need lots of extra support.

It is all so heartbreaking whether they have a quick end or need loads of support. I can imagine my Dad is going to be very stubborn. He is already saying he will keep his bedroom upstairs. I'm already thinking he will fall down the stairs.

Only scumbags take advantage of old people. to everyone coping with organisation and money problems.

Prompted by a couple of posts below - does anyone have any tips on how best to try to block or prevent the calls selling things? BT does a telephone with a screening service - does anyone have any experience of this? Is a total block on 'withheld' numbers a problem if a doc or hospital tries to call? (I know about tps, but seems this is not wholly effective!).

No overdraft facility and minimal amount in account is good, though can lead to legitimate direct debits being refused if you don't keep a very close eye.

Cuitadella, my mum also has a main account which allows Direct debit. (However I have hidden details, cheque books etc from her.) The second is a linked account, which operates a bit like on of those teenager accounts, so no direct debits. She can use the debit card though, like a normal debit card, use cash points, get cash back and so on. I can transfer money from one to the other using a phone app.

To some extent there was little choice. Banks are in a difficult position, almost damned if they do, and damned if they don't. People are free to make bad financial decisions (like send money to obvious fraudsters) as long as they are still judged to have "capacity", yet banks also have some sort of duty to protect vulnerable customers. The bank (NatWest) were really supportive in helping me sort out the mess, but then wanted to close my mum's accounts. There was no obvious way of preventing her give away bank details over the phone, essentially to anyone who called. This was the compromise we reached.

I have no idea how to stop the phone calls other than to change phone number. Numbers seem to be bought and sold, especially if someone both has access to money and is easy to dupe.

And there are scam salesmen who market ways to block unwanted phone calls here

I have mentioned this before, but if your relative is remotely vulnerable, or in a home, sign up to Land Registry alerts on their main home. Such fraud is probably rare, but would be pretty catastrophic, and the Land Registry service is free. Interestingly I got an email from a major chain of London estate agents yesterday, and they had the following as their standard footer.

"The Land Registry’s Property Alert Service provides the ability for property owners to include alternative contact details for notification of any activity on their property. This means that you will be alerted by the Land Registry when any official searches and/or applications are received in connection with the property. If you believe the activity to be suspicious this allows you to take swift action. We strongly advise that you take up this service. See propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/propertyalert/serviceavailability for further details."

Thanks needs, that is really helpful. Feel slightly sick reading your point about sale of phone numbers, but onwards we go! So, you have the main current account for direct debits etc, and then a linked current account which you keep only, say, £100 in, which is what your dm has the debit card and cheque book for?

That sounds as though as you say it would be a good compromise - just need to keep an eye on there being enough funds in the 'linked account' day to day.

Thanks for the info about land registry as well. Off to look into it now!

And of course changing the phone number would make it much harder for all old friends and relations to contact the person - as people often lose the new phone numbers when you give them them (I certainly do). Plus, presumably the scam calls start again pretty soon!

Still, the bank account idea is very hopeful - thanks so much!

It technically a savings account, so no cheque book either. Just the card. And no more money in it than my mother could afford to lose.

She lost £'000's to protection salesmen, and probably even more to buying rubbish things, like expensive vitamin pills, and bizarre kitchen equipment, marketed carefully to appeal to vulnerable people who wanted to regain their health and finally become the ultimate 60's hostess. Plus all those awful charity mail outs, and some very dodgy advice from a Financial Adviser in a High Street bank. (When my dad died she said she did not need our help, as this "nice young man" was helping her with her investments. Moving them from easy access ISAs to 5 year stock market linked bonds. She was 80 at the time!) Or the British Gas salesman who sold her a top of the range new boiler, with the world's most complicated instructions. (The guy on the helpline agreed that he too struggled and it was definitely not a boiler he would recommend for his granny.) Or the estate agent who rented a flat off my mum for himself, at a price he suggested. Or the carer who helped herself to money.

But just as bad was the garage that she and my dad had used for ever, who tried to persuade me that the car was worth nothing and they would be doing me a favour by taking it away. (Four years later and it is still our family car.) Lots of kind people gave me real help, but I met my share of rats.

Rant over. Vulnerable means vulnerable. However it is so hard to protect people, especially if they don't understand or accept their loss of capacity.

Thanks needs - it is really kind of you to share your experience! The savings account/debit card sounds like a really practical solution. Your dm is lucky to have you to go to these efforts on her behalf!

Vintage, cuz not going in, selling house to niece all sounds v sensible. And hooray that she is settling.

LittleHo a difficult time for you all

We had some good news today, AgeUK will be able to help MIL despite her being relatively young. They are sending someone round to help her with her application for the higher level of disability benefit they say she should qualify for.

She's settled in okay back in her home, we are visiting a lot to support her but hoping it will decrease in time. She's not had as many outbursts since going home but luckily not in front of the children.

Sorry to hear times are hard for others, it's such a rollercoaster looking after parents.

Lost you all! Couldn't remember what to search under... Glad to be back.

I'm glad AgeUK are getting involved. Although she is young, her situation is in line with their usual clients I would think.

The driving stories and scamming stories are hair raising. My DM was about to renew the insurance for DFs car, without updating the information. As he is no longer driving then he won't be the main driver, will he! So it wouldn't be valid if she has an accident. I'm going down next week so I'll sort it out then. Pah. Admin isn't my thing...

There's a new service called 'Call Protect' (not a phone, but a 'feature' which looks as though it may help - will be interesting to see how effective it will be.

Has anyone had experience of blocking all incoming international calls? Does it mean that if a loving relative calls from abroad on a UK mobile that is treated as an international call and said loving relative then can't get through?!

Also, have hospitals/docs started using non 'withheld' numbers, so that they don't get blocked by people blocking all inward withheld calls? (Sorry, repeating my question below, but maybe for the Saturday call blocking crowd?)

I don't know. A new phone number and my mum not having her bank details worked for us. I assume she tells any cold callers that I have stolen her money.

You could try a forum with more traffic like the Alzheimers Society "Talking Point ". They seem better at some of the technical stuff. Cold calling and mis-selling is a problem.

My latest is that I have 10 months to sort out a work place pension for my mum's carer. None of the guidance is particularly easy By the end of this I will be qualified for a job in personnel.

Hi all, I'm not on here often but can add a couple of tips.

If your parents or any vulnerable persons are homeowners with no mortgage, you can have a restriction written into the property title which states any activity on the house e.g. Lending against it... can only be carried out when ID check of the owner has been done in person by a conveyancer or solicitor. Costs a little to write in but gives you complete protection against fraud

We also have two accounts... one main account for all income and bill payments, direct debits etc... and another for DM to use for shopping etc. She has no idea that they're separate, there's never more than £100 in the account that she has access to, I just offer to pay al he big bills and invoices and she gladly accepts

Needmoresleep - is there not an agency you can use for paye, pensions etc? We used one for our old nanny and they did everything for a fee of about £10 a month

Fruit box. I tried something called Nanny tax but they were really expensive for what they offered and we're not set up for carers. I am sensing a business opportunity! Except I am too tired to take advantage.

Yes good idea, the way most agencies get around it though is like cleaners... they contract the carers on a self-employed basis and charge the client commission as a management/finding fee

Normally a lurker but I saw the question about call blocking and had to reply. We have just replaced our old phone plus separate call blocker box with the BT8600 which has an integrated call screening service. It's absolutely fantastic! You can set up what's effectively a whitelist of numbers which can always get through and anything else is screened by the system. Genuine callers have to announce themselves and anything that doesn't just doesn't get through. You can set it to block international/withheld etc but we haven't bothered and we haven't had a nuisance call since we got it.

The separate call blocker was good but occasionally started to ring before cutting the call off which was annoying. DM replaced her phone with a new one and I've blocked international calls on it which has cut down the number of nuisance calls she gets but this one is so much better I really wish she'd got this version. Re international calls - we recently phoned her from abroad on DH's PAYG mobile and it went through fine although I was concerned about International calls being blocked before we went.

DB tells me there's some sort of call blocking feature available if you're a BT customer. You have to go into the account online to activate it and he's going to do that for DM next time he's down. Worth looking into for vulnerable DP's if they are

Thanks Battleaxe, Needs and fruit, that's so helpful.

Fruit, how did you go about writing the restriction in at the land registry? I've signed up for land registry alerts as Need suggested below - would like to see about doing the restriction thing as well. Do you write to land registry or can you e-mail them?

Yes, the new call blocking service is 'call protect' i mentioned below, so will be interesting to see how well it works. Very useful to know that a mobile got through from abroad when international calls were blocked!
I've read about the 8600 - great idea. Let's hope the scammers can't get through the screening somehow. It is good that companies seem to be putting resources into fighting off the cold callers! Can't be beyond the wit of 21st century technology etc... Can it?

Fruit, my accountant who handles a lot of small businesses, warned me that HMRC are really cracking down on "self employment". The carer was doing about 7 hours (half an hour morning calls, plus two outings a week), managing what needed to be done herself, and finding a replacement if she could not make it, which seemed to meet the definition of self employed. But the hours then went up.

I gave her the option of being employed, and also offered as an alternative to pay for the accountant to help with self-assessment should she want to be self employed. I think we are both more comfortable with everything being by the book, with tax, NI and, ultimately pension, paid. It also gives scope for a redundancy payment, which could happen at any time.

The lawyer suggested that accountants always argue for employment, and lawyers for self employment, because they are engaged to sort out different issues. Apparently it's pretty grey, and it really only when the courts decide that you know whether someone was an employee or not.

I also assume that whoever wrote the European Working Time Directive, never worked as a carer. The contract allows for quite a generous statutory minimum leave, which I am happy for the carer to take. She is unlikely to want to take all of it. I am not allowed to pay in lieu. The carer described a near riot at the agency she also works for, when scope for payment in lieu was withdrawn. She and others sat at home taking their holiday, resenting their loss of extra money, with the agency desperately trying to find someone to cover their shifts.

There must be a huge number of casual part time staff working for small employers, not just carers, but coaches working for voluntary sports clubs, that sort of thing. It would be nice to see a not-for-profit one stop shop who could make the admin user friendly. Staff probably don't mind paying tax and NI, and having a pension scheme, so it would be worthwhile in terms of additional tax revenue for the government to help fund such support. Its been a huge wheel to reinvent, and I cannot be the only one who has struggled.

Rant over.

My mother is slowly getting better after her spell in hospital but I don't think she will really recover till spring (if at all). It was a shock to see how quickly she went downhill. A reminder, after a long plateau, that nothing is predictable.

I hope everyone else is doing OK.